Vermont Hits 4.3 Million Skier Visits for 2007-08 Season

[Greg]

http://news.alpinezone.com/29598/

 

[drjeff]

Cool, my family did it's part with 140 of those skier visits

 

[deadheadskier]

I think it would be cool to see the numbers broken down by area

 

[catskills]

Over 500,000 increase in VT skier visits. Good for them. Folks know a good product when they see one. Interesting how Hunter and Windham still think Belleayre is the main ski area to blame for stealing away their skier visits. :blink: :smash: The VT skier visit increase alone is 3 times the total yearly Belleayre ski visits. That is just the increased VT skier visitors. Wake up and do the math.

 

[hardline]

Over 500,000 increase in VT skier visits. Good for them. Folks know a good product when they see one. Interesting how Hunter and Windham still think Belleayre is the main ski area to blame for stealing away their skier visits. :blink: :smash: The VT skier visit increase alone is 3 times the total yearly Belleayre ski visits. That is just the increased VT skier visitors. Wake up and do the math.

what i come down to is any press is good press. hunter and windham are only doing what political canidates do to each other, except bellearye dosn't fight back.

 

[drjeff]

I think it would be cool to see the numbers broken down by area

I have a hunch that a certain VT ski area that starts with a "K" and ends with an "n" would rather we don't see what their actual numbers were

 

[Vinny]

Great news. Mother Nature helped an awful lot. I know we skied more last season than I can remember.

Let's hope that it got some people who have been away back into skiing. Newbies had to love the conditions and should be stoked for another try. Nothing but upside IMO.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Congrats Vermont...I accounted for 13 of those visits..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I have a hunch that a certian VT ski area that starts with a "K" and ends with an "n" would rather we don't see what their actual numbers were

Killingtons plan was to have less overhead and less skier visits..

 

[drjeff]

Killingtons plan was to have less overhead and less skier visits..

Still though when you're trying to pitch a HUGE new base area development it's not always the best thing for the town/local retailers to see how much your business plan has driven away customers.

 

[SpinmasterK]

There is a big difference between total skier visits that all areas report on an apples-to-apples basis, which includes comp tickets and a formula for calculating season pass visits, and the actual number of paid visits to each resort.
The story for Killington is not who wasn't here this year - those who historically skied on passes (All For One) from other mountains and deeply discounted or free tickets, but who were here this year - paying guests, who took advantage of a number of value opportunities, including season passes, multi-day tickets, lodging/lift packages, Express Cards and Countdown Cards.
We define our success on the experience we provide to our guests, including the quality of the snow product and guest service levels, in addition to operating a financially sustainable business that allows for reinvestment. This past season, the snow product was outstanding, and there were improvements in Guest Service. However, there is room for growth in both those areas moving forward.
From a financial standpoint we were very successful, which is evident by the $8.4 million were putting back into the mountain this summer in capital improvements, including a new lift and trail, snowmaking and facility upgrades.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Still though when you're trying to pitch a HUGE new base area development it's not always the best thing for the town/local retailers to see how much your business plan has driven away customers.

Yup it's been a house of pain for the local businesses, especially for those on the access rd. Powdr's view I'm sure is that they are not responsible for private businesses and in couple of years the "new kmart" will give them more than enough business....if they can last until then. Kinda been their mantra from day one and it looks like their plan is on track.

Don't forget their plan has also helped increase skier business for some of the other resorts. Not sure if that was anticipated or not :lol:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

There is a big difference between total skier visits that all areas report on an apples-to-apples basis, which includes comp tickets and a formula for calculating season pass visits, and the actual number of paid visits to each resort.
The story for Killington is not who wasn't here this year - those who historically skied on passes (All For One) from other mountains and deeply discounted or free tickets, but who were here this year - paying guests, who took advantage of a number of value opportunities, including season passes, multi-day tickets, lodging/lift packages, Express Cards and Countdown Cards.
We define our success on the experience we provide to our guests, including the quality of the snow product and guest service levels, in addition to operating a financially sustainable business that allows for reinvestment. This past season, the snow product was outstanding, and there were improvements in Guest Service. However, there is room for growth in both those areas moving forward.
From a financial standpoint we were very successful, which is evident by the $8.4 million were putting back into the mountain this summer in capital improvements, including a new lift and trail, snowmaking and facility upgrades.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...stay open into May next year if you want AZers to say good things about K-Mart..

 

[Tin Woodsman]

There is a big difference between total skier visits that all areas report on an apples-to-apples basis, which includes comp tickets and a formula for calculating season pass visits, and the actual number of paid visits to each resort.
The story for Killington is not who wasn't here this year - those who historically skied on passes (All For One) from other mountains and deeply discounted or free tickets, but who were here this year - paying guests, who took advantage of a number of value opportunities, including season passes, multi-day tickets, lodging/lift packages, Express Cards and Countdown Cards.
We define our success on the experience we provide to our guests, including the quality of the snow product and guest service levels, in addition to operating a financially sustainable business that allows for reinvestment. This past season, the snow product was outstanding, and there were improvements in Guest Service. However, there is room for growth in both those areas moving forward.
From a financial standpoint we were very successful, which is evident by the $8.4 million were putting back into the mountain this summer in capital improvements, including a new lift and trail, snowmaking and facility upgrades.

Sure. Your definition of success is based SOLELY on the experience you provide to your guests and not the number of skiers. That's why you won't release the seasonal tally to the town of Killington unless it's subject to confidentiality, right? Surely, given this definition of success, you should have no problem revealing the material decrease in skier visits during a year when VT saw a 14% increase, right? What is there to hide?

Simply unbelievable how you clowns don't get the basics of PR and marketing. If you think the town won't find out the real number eventually so that they can fairly evaluate your Village aspirations, think again.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Yup it's been a house of pain for the local businesses, especially for those on the access rd. Powdr's view I'm sure is that they are not responsible for private businesses and in couple of years the "new kmart" will give them more than enough business....if they can last until then. Kinda been their mantra from day one and it looks like their plan is on track.

Don't forget their plan has also helped increase skier business for some of the other resorts. Not sure if that was anticipated or not :lol:

Alas, for POWDR (and more importantly SP Land) it's the owners and friends of those private businesses who live in town and control the keys the development kingdom. How these guys can't seem to figure that out is pure comedy.

 

[hardline]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...stay open into May next year if you want AZers to say good things about K-Mart..

+1

 

[deadheadskier]

+1

+2

 

[Geoff]

+2

Closing in April with edge-to-edge cover on every steep snowmaking trail was a travesty.

Killington did improve their midwinter weekend & holiday customer experience dramatically. Unfortunately, the ham-fisted way they dealt with the town, families, the ski clubs, and their existing customer base has done a lot of damage to the resort's brand. The fact that the resort refuses to release their skier visit numbers at a mountain that has always released them is typical of the way they operate. There was a famous line in a meeting between the town and the resort where Nyberg said "It's like birds eating bugs off the back of an elephant." Somebody piped up wanting to know if Nyberg thought Killington was the bird or the elephant. The resort has a 49 year history and the perception is that these guys are going to rape, pillage, and leave a steaming pile in a few years. The town is openly hostile to any notion of real estate development by the resort. They've already voted in a 1% local sales tax as a dope slap to the resort. The town wants to turn Killington into a 12-month resort. The resort has responded by shrinking the ski season from a traditional 7 months down to 5 months. That basic conflict needs to be resolved.

 

[that guy]

more comedy from the K-crew

Why is it Tom that seemingly EVERYONE else on the East Coast can manage to release their numbers?

As Tin Woodsman said if you guys did SUCH a bang up job this year and are so proud of yourselves whats the harm in tipping your hat and showing us all of your skier visits? Since all the guests were PAYING and not cheap A41 passholders we all should be in AWE of just how much profit margin you made, right? Unless in fact skier visits at Killington were at an all time low last year despite the record snowfalls and superior product you claim to have produced.

So why is it that you NEED this base village? Without showing at least SOME growth in skier visits there really isn't any need to increase the total number of beds at the mountain since given the current state of affairs the access road bed base is more then sufficient to service the number of skiers that currently visit the mountain, right?

 

[Geoff]

So why is it that you NEED this base village? Without showing at least SOME growth in skier visits there really isn't any need to increase the total number of beds at the mountain since given the current state of affairs the access road bed base is more then sufficient to service the number of skiers that currently visit the mountain, right?

I realize this is a rhetorical question but...

SP Land/E2M is a Texas corporation. POWDR is a Utah corporation. Neither corporation has any other presence in the northeast. Corporations are motivated by profit. Killington is a profit opportunity. Period. In the case of SP Land, they stole the real estate for the village from the American Skiing Company for pennies on the dollar. They then stole the ski resort and any remaining interest in the real estate from the American Skiing Company since no other buyer would have wanted a ski area sittting on leased land where another corporation owned all the developable land at the bottom of the hill. SP Land then spun out the ski resort part of the holdings to POWDR. It's not on the public record since both are privately held corporations but it's safe to say that POWDR has far less than the $80-ish million SP Land paid for the ski area since SP Land grabbed all the remaining real estate.

So, SP Land "NEEDs" the real estate development because that is how they make their profit. The raw land is worth far less than the land with trailside trophy homes, luxury condos, and commercial space developed on it.

POWDR "NEEDs" the real estate development because they have some unspecified minority interest in the project. Once again, profit. By upgrading lifts and base lodges, Killington also becomes a more valuable asset on the books. Profit. Pure & simple.

My issue has always been with the early closing. Spring skiing was always profitable at Killington though not in the huge numbers of the midwinter product. Killington needs to operate deep into the spring not because of profit but because it's the right thing to do for skiers, for the local businesses, and for the town. The fact that they close early, don't release their skier visit numbers, jacked up prices on kid programs, ... clearly demonstrates that these are outsiders who are motivated by profit and don't care about the local community. Why should they? They'll all be gone in a few years and it's not their problem. They just want to make money now.