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What will be different for 20/21 Ski Season?

tnt1234

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Has anyone heard anything about Belleayre's plan for the season?
 

cdskier

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You will have to buy an epic day pass to reserve further out than 7 days. I believe that means actually paying for a lift ticket in advance, then selecting the day you will ski. You can cancel that day, and reschedule, but you are paying for a day in advance.

I think,

Epic Day pass is different than buying day tickets. The Epic Day pass is considered a "pass product" except it is only valid for a total of 1-7 days depending on the number of days you buy at the time you buy the pass. Epic Day pass holders will be subject to the same reservation rules as other Epic pass holders (i.e. they can book their priority reservation days starting November 6th). Since an Epic Day pass is valid for a max of 7 days, you can basically reserve all your dates ahead of time to lock them in during that "priority reservation" period.

Vail will still sell day tickets (starting December 8th). However at the time you buy the day ticket it is only valid for the exact day and resort you purchase it for. So starting December 8th I could buy a single ticket to Stowe for January 15th for example (assuming January 15th at Stowe wasn't already fully reserved by "priority reservations" from passholders).

The Epic Day pass product gives you a fixed up front cost and you don't need to pick your days up front and can move them around later. You do need to purchase it before they stop selling them though. Day tickets you can decide to buy anytime starting from December 8th, but you'll simply pay more per day.
 

BenedictGomez

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I have no desire as an Eastern skier to buy a ticket dated January 18th on December 8th. Especially not at Vail Resorts pricing.
 

cdskier

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I have no desire as an Eastern skier to buy a ticket dated January 18th on December 8th. Especially not at Vail Resorts pricing.

I agree, but if everyone thought this way, then we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place where Epic pass holders are concerned that day ticket purchasers are being "favored" with how the reservation system works.
 

boston_e

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Maybe I missed it, but has Vail said how they determine capacity for each of the resorts? And how many days in a typical season do they get attendance beyond that the daily limits will be?
 

cdskier

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Maybe I missed it, but has Vail said how they determine capacity for each of the resorts? And how many days in a typical season do they get attendance beyond that the daily limits will be?

I don't think they know the answer themselves yet as it is at least partially dependent upon what the various states mandate by that point...
 

slatham

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I don't think they know the answer themselves yet as it is at least partially dependent upon what the various states mandate by that point...

This is the critical question and will vary resort by resort based on local mandates. I don't think we should get too stressed out until we know those capacity constraints, and we should recognize those are not Vail mandates but rather local governments.

Unless of course Vail comes over the top and goes with the most restrictive and applies to all resorts. What an uproar that would cause.....
 

tnt1234

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Epic Day pass is different than buying day tickets. The Epic Day pass is considered a "pass product" except it is only valid for a total of 1-7 days depending on the number of days you buy at the time you buy the pass. Epic Day pass holders will be subject to the same reservation rules as other Epic pass holders (i.e. they can book their priority reservation days starting November 6th). Since an Epic Day pass is valid for a max of 7 days, you can basically reserve all your dates ahead of time to lock them in during that "priority reservation" period.

Vail will still sell day tickets (starting December 8th). However at the time you buy the day ticket it is only valid for the exact day and resort you purchase it for. So starting December 8th I could buy a single ticket to Stowe for January 15th for example (assuming January 15th at Stowe wasn't already fully reserved by "priority reservations" from passholders).

The Epic Day pass product gives you a fixed up front cost and you don't need to pick your days up front and can move them around later. You do need to purchase it before they stop selling them though. Day tickets you can decide to buy anytime starting from December 8th, but you'll simply pay more per day.

I'm with you on all that except I thought regular day tickets could only be reserved a week in advance.
 

tnt1234

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really, if they significantly limit access, and you have a pass, and spend the holidays in the mountains and score the reservations, this could lead to some nice big weekend days at uncrowded mountains.

Oh, and of course, the conditions have to be good....
 

BenedictGomez

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I don't think they know the answer themselves yet as it is at least partially dependent upon what the various states mandate by that point...

And even if they do, I don't expect them to announce the info on a per resort basis.

Maybe I'll be wrong about that, and I'd love to think I will be, but my cynical azz just doesn't see them floating each bogey.
 

tnt1234

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And even if they do, I don't expect them to announce the info on a per resort basis.

Maybe I'll be wrong about that, and I'd love to think I will be, but my cynical azz just doesn't see them floating each bogey.

Capacity might be more about indoor facilities than anything...
 

Edd

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Capacity might be more about indoor facilities than anything...

Yes, it seems this keeps getting brought up and forgotten. They’ll make out best if there’s a differentiation between lodge reservations and on-hill reservations.

I don’t see a way around this. If they limit access to the property at, say, 50% of what their buildings can normally hold per the fire marshal, or whatever, the slopes will be empty. That’s not going to happen.
 

njdiver85

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I'm with you on all that except I thought regular day tickets could only be reserved a week in advance.

This is a commonly held misconception based on Vail's clever wording of the reservation system and "week-of" limitations. The reality is that season passholders are the ones subject to only reserving a week in advance (with the only exception being the 7 priority days that they can hold for more advance reservations and which would replenish themselves as they get used - although this does present some issues in itself).

BUT . . . as far as regular day tickets are concerned, once they go on sale in December, they can be purchased for ANY day during the season no matter how distant, and by definition they automatically come with a "reservation" attached for the particular day purchased.

So the risk to season passholders is that so many day tickets are purchased for future busy weekends/holidays that passholders get shut out of making a week-of reservation for that busy weekend/holiday. Now some will argue that this is why you get 7 priority days, and that can help, but if you tie them up for let's say, President's Week, you don't get any more of them until you start using them President's week, so you are probably shut out of Christmas Week or MLK weekend at normally busy resorts. Others have argued that you should only use your Priority Days for the holiday weekend days, but if you are planning a big trip out West for President's week, do you want to run the risk that you might not be able to ski on the weekdays. Doubtful - you'd want to have that whole week reserved - so effectively you have tied up your priority days.

Longwinded way of saying that I don't believe that 7 priority days are a fair number to be given to season passholders. It should be at least double that!

And to those that say Vail has likely crunched the numbers and that won't happen, I do believe that they have crunched the numbers, but I would bet they used those numbers to ensure a policy that would optimize purchase of expensive day tickets. They probably figured that they would loose a few passholders once they announced the reservation system, but they probably new that they'd be able to sell a lot more day tickets to more than make up for the lost revenue and then some!
 
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BenedictGomez

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Yes, it seems this keeps getting brought up and forgotten. They’ll make out best if there’s a differentiation between lodge reservations and on-hill reservations.

This is why I'd like to see hills take a "proof of vaccination" certificate, and that person wouldn't count against their daily tally, thus opening up the sport to more individuals. Persons with such certificates could ski as many days as they want.

they probably new that they'd be able to sell a lot more day tickets to more than make up for the lost revenue and then some!

This is how I see it, I view Vail's decision as a "feature" of their new plan, whereas others seem to see it as a "bug" in their new plan.

Vail's going to sell more of those ridiculously expensive single day tickets that "no one buys" then ever before.
 

tnt1234

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I don't think neck gators and ski masks really offer the same protector as double layer cloth masks or medical masks. So I don't think that brochure is really all that accurate.

And as far as skis and boards providing built in separate.....meh....the crush of humanity outside the RIFD gates on big weekends says differently.

Hell, even the the Covid friendly single chair....the back and forth of the maze puts you shoulder to shoulder with other people constantly.


Riding the lift with your party, and the actual skiing is totally great. But there are definitely other aspects of the sport, even outside of the lodge, that will require a little effort.
 

BenedictGomez

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I just saw a television commercial for EPIC pass. Has Vail done that before non-locally (i.e. not right in a ski market)? I cant recall ever seeing one before where I live.
 
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