Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges

[deadheadskier]

SNHU has the benefit of having an online enrollment of 87,000 students vs 4,000 on campus. So, that's not really a good apples to apples comparison with NVU. SNHU could however serve as a model for NVU. It's taken many years to build that online enrollment at SNHU, so it wouldn't happen for NVU overnight .

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[thetrailboss]

Related to colleges being screwed going forward, SNHU is offering free tuition for all incoming freshman, and lowering tuition to 10K per year going forward. Will others follow?

https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/...rn-new-hampshire-university-to-offer-10k.html

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Willing to beat that the University of Phoenix does some sort of deal.


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[BenedictGomez]

Willing to beat that the University of Phoenix does some sort of deal.

Ahhh..... one of the poster child's of problem schools. Acceptance rate = 100% (not kidding). Just printing out "college graduates".

 

[VTKilarney]

SNHU has the benefit of having an online enrollment of 87,000 students vs 4,000 on campus. So, that's not really a good apples to apples comparison with NVU. SNHU could however serve as a model for NVU. It's taken many years to build that online enrollment at SNHU, so it wouldn't happen for NVU overnight .

Lyndon has been trying to develop online programs for years. They just have sucked at it compared to SNHU.

 

[BenedictGomez]

top heavy admins.

Until watching this Tucker Carlson takedown of large colleges getting COVID19 relief money last night I had no idea many college heads make millions of dollars. I knew some D1 football & basketball coaches make millions, (which is obscene & tells you all you need to know about how NCAA is now business, not educaton), and while I knew school presidents were paid extremely well, I didn't think they made this much.

 

[drjeff]

Until watching this Tucker Carlson takedown of large colleges getting COVID19 relief money last night I had no idea many college heads make millions of dollars. I knew some D1 football & basketball coaches make millions, (which is obscene & tells you all you need to know about how NCAA is now business, not educaton), and while I knew school presidents were paid extremely well, I didn't think they made this much.

Love the call out of my Alma Mater, RPI, right off the bat there! Dr Jackson is a world class physicist, no doubt about that at all. Her practices when it comes to leading the school certainly can be questioned over the 20 or so years now she's been the President

 

[Smellytele]

Ahhh..... one of the poster child's of problem schools. Acceptance rate = 100% (not kidding). Just printing out "college graduates".

Another important thing to look at is graduation rate. Many schools take in close to 100% but have low graduation rates. So lots of freshman not so many seniors.
Others have a lower acceptance rate but high graduation rate. This can be deceiving as it may be because the grading is easy.


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[cdskier]

Love the call out of my Alma Mater, RPI, right off the bat there! Dr Jackson is a world class physicist, no doubt about that at all. Her practices when it comes to leading the school certainly can be questioned over the 20 or so years now she's been the President

Is RPI not that well known outside of this area? First thing he said about them is it is a "school you've probably never heard of" which seems odd to me. I could be biased though as it was one of the schools I thought about attending and I have several friends that did go there. This did raise my curiosity on how much the president of my alma mater makes. Our current president makes "only" around $1M. Also interesting to me to find out my school has almost a $1B endowment. A discussion I had with our previous VP of Alumni Relations years ago made it sound like they didn't have much. To be honest, I find it disappointing for any school to continually raise their tuition when they have that much money socked away in their endowment fund. My school increased from 21K when I graduated to over 50K now (and that's just tuition). Yet they have the audacity to continue to beg alumni for donations...

 

[AdironRider]

I think everyone knows that colleges are dealing with problems of both their own doing (bloated administration) and the feds (student loans unable to be discharged in bankruptcy / backed by the government).

However, Lyndon is a glorified community college. They aren't cranking out Rhodes scholars. Literally no one is going to lose out on opportunity here, where they can just go to one of many other options available, often for much lower cost as previously highlighted. This problem is solely their (Lyndon the college's) fault. If it was a better college that provided better opportunity, it wouldn't. They have no one to blame but themselves for that. End of story.

This thread is really seems to be about whether taxpayers should support Lyndon as some sort of charity, that provides jobs and money to the surrounding area. Being VT, I'm sure that idea is popular locally but is ultimately unsustainable.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think everyone knows that colleges are dealing with problems of both their own doing (bloated administration) and the feds (student loans unable to be discharged in bankruptcy / backed by the government).

However, Lyndon is a glorified community college. They aren't cranking out Rhodes scholars. Literally no one is going to lose out on opportunity here, where they can just go to one of many other options available, often for much lower cost as previously highlighted. This problem is solely their (Lyndon the college's) fault. If it was a better college that provided better opportunity, it wouldn't. They have no one to blame but themselves for that. End of story.

This thread is really seems to be about whether taxpayers should support Lyndon as some sort of charity, that provides jobs and money to the surrounding area. Being VT, I'm sure that idea is popular locally but is ultimately unsustainable.

Apparently knife sales are down. Hopefully you get a bailout.

Lyndon is not the only school at issue. Your POV is pretty limited on the school. They have some really highly rated programs and they offer a lot of students who do not have the money or opportunities to get ahead.

 

[thetrailboss]

Lyndon has been trying to develop online programs for years. They just have sucked at it compared to SNHU.

Again, not really a good comparison. SNHU is a private school. I don't know if they are for-profit or not, but it is a completely different model and an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[AdironRider]

Dude, please, the educational opportunity available at Lyndon and the other schools in question is easily replaceable. They are a second tier niche J school at best, and J schools are literally have one of the worst payoffs of all college degrees. The rest of Lyndon's programs are garbage and overpriced. If they weren't, they wouldn't be failing as a college.

And PS, glad to see you are taking the course from the DHS school of moderation in how to make cheap shots as if my career matters here. Like Lyndon, I'm sure the program is ranked "pretty highly" (quotes intentional) let all you have to show for it is declining ad revenue for Nick and a dying forum.

You only care because some friends are going to lose their jobs. Chalk up TB as one who thinks Lyndon should stick around as a charity. How Vermont of you.

 

[thetrailboss]

Dude, please, the educational opportunity available at Lyndon and the other schools in question is easily replaceable. They are a second tier niche J school at best, and J schools are literally have one of the worst payoffs of all college degrees. The rest of Lyndon's programs are garbage and overpriced. If they weren't, they wouldn't be failing as a college.

And PS, glad to see you are taking the course from the DHS school of moderation in how to make cheap shots as if my career matters here. Like Lyndon, I'm sure the program is ranked "pretty highly" (quotes intentional) let all you have to show for it is declining ad revenue for Nick and a dying forum.

You only care because some friends are going to lose their jobs. Chalk up TB as one who thinks Lyndon should stick around as a charity. How Vermont of you.

AR, as always, you are an expert at everything. Who could argue with you? Either that or you are really bored. My money is on the latter.

And you talk about your business here. I just remembered that. No doubt you are a rockstar at it as demonstrated by your prowess of every subject in here.

Opinions on the topic heard. Thanks.

 

[VTKilarney]

Again, not really a good comparison. SNHU is a private school. I don't know if they are for-profit or not, but it is a completely different model and an apples to oranges comparison.

This makes no sense. They are both poorly ranked northern New England colleges that have attempted to make up for declining enrollment by developing online programs. One school succeeded very well. The other (NVU) didn't gain nearly the same traction. Both schools had equal opportunity to pursue this path.

Actually, it is about as apples to apples as you can get.

 

[VTKilarney]

AR, as always, you are an expert at everything. Who could argue with you? Either that or you are really bored. My money is on the latter.

And you talk about your business here. I just remembered that. No doubt you are a rockstar at it as demonstrated by your prowess of every subject in here.

Opinions on the topic heard. Thanks.

Let's be honest. You CONSTANTLY harp on the tax burden that Vermonter's face. And yet in this instance you are turning a blind eye to the obvious consequences of keeping several campuses open rather than consolidating in order to stop losing money.

It's absolutely fair to call you out on this hypocrisy.

 

[VTKilarney]

They have some really highly rated programs and they offer a lot of students who do not have the money or opportunities to get ahead.

Like what? Their major claim to fame, atmospheric sciences, has only one full professor. He graduated from... Plymouth State. That's hardly a blueprint for national acclaim.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Is RPI not that well known outside of this area? First thing he said about them is it is a "school you've probably never heard of" which seems odd to me.

I suspect Carlson's probably correct outside the northeast. I had never heard of R.P.I. until I started following NCAA hockey, as they usually have a pretty decent hockey team.

 

[BenedictGomez]

However, Lyndon is a glorified community college. They aren't cranking out Rhodes scholars. Literally no one is going to lose out on opportunity here, where they can just go to one of many other options available, often for much lower cost as previously highlighted. This problem is solely their (Lyndon the college's) fault. If it was a better college that provided better opportunity, it wouldn't. They have no one to blame but themselves for that. End of story.

The fact these are not the greatest schools & are relatively expensive in that context has been mentioned, as has bloated admin. But I wonder if cultural change to Vermont itself could also be to blame?

What do I mean by this.

It used to be that Vermonters were like pets with electric collars, and the border of Vermont was the electric fence. Vermonters didn't travel & Vermonters didn't leave. When I moved to n.VT over 20 years ago, I was shocked how many born & raised Vermonters had never been to Montreal, a beautiful city with great culture, activities, and experiences, even though it was literally an hour (or less) from their home. To someone from New Jersey, this seemed beyond bizarre. And while I admit I may be 100% wrong on this point, my sense is that this is no longer the case. That young (or young'ish) Vermonters are given to travel, and no longer think it impossible to leave Vermont's borders, either to attend college or perhaps even to leave forever. In that scenario, you can imagine these colleges losing the ability to attract the 17 year old Vermonters who were previously their bread-and-butter. If I'm correct on that cultural shift, they're doomed by this as well as all the prior reasons mentioned.

 

[VTKilarney]

It may have more to do with the fact that there just aren't many opportunities in Vermont for young people due in large part to the tax burden on both people and businesses. If you know that you are going to leave for work, why not go to college and make connections in a part of the country that you want to live in.

 

[deadheadskier]

My understanding more than leaving for other schools out of state, the primary contributor is a reduction in school aged children in the state. Those who graduate high school are still attending college at the same rate, there's just fewer graduates to attract to the state schools.

Total number of students was 106,341 in 1997. By 2015 that number had dropped to 84,519 and continues to drop.

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