Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges

[EPB]

Please- I understood the implications of every loan. Then again, I was an engineering student and studied 35 hours a week plus classes to make sure it worked out. And I graduated in a recession.

As a millennial, I will say that the sell job that academia was doing in the 2000's on America's youth was wildly unethical. If anything, I fear the BS level has only been elevated as more economically useless degrees/fields of study have permeated academia in the years since I was an undergraduate. The smoke I got blown up my rear end about how priceless my degree was going to be, regardless of what I studied, was palpable at each university to which I applied.

At best these administrators/professors naively appealed to their position of authority when pitching to prospective students the value of the degrees they hoped to earn. More likely, they knew that ~half the degrees offered were totally worthless and these university representatives continued with the sell job anyway. The irony is not lost on me that these very people claim to be the arbiters of morality - or that these are the same people who preach from their soapboxes how evil businesses are.

This is coming from someone whose parents could afford the price tag and earned a valuable degree. That said, I feel terribly for those whose parents couldn't afford the sky high tuition and didn't have the financial acumen to convincingly explain to their children why borrowing money to study [XYZ obvious joke field of study] is a one way trip to financial ruin.

 

[drjeff]

Purely 100% my own views here... For perspective, my in-laws (both of whom I like and enjoy talking to after knowing them for over a quarter century now) were college profs in the Boston area... My FIL was head of the College of General Studies at Boston University when he retired, and my MIL was an Associate Prof in the Biology Department at UMASS Boston.

They both now admit, that short of a minority number of academic fields (such as engineering, mathematics, applied sciences, etc) that so much of what is offered and taught these days, just isn't cost worthy or relevant today (and for added perspective, my sister in-law, their younger daughter, is an Ph.D, tenured professor at Princeton as a social anthropologist specializing in the study of Turkish genocide of the Muslim Cyprian citizens from the late 1800's through mid 1900's ... (I wish I was making that up, but I'm not, and apparently it's culturally relevant enough in the academic world that Columbia University has entered into a bit of a bidding war with Princeton now over having my sister in-law on staff.... [emoji849][emoji849]

If one wants me to elaborate more upon my views of modern academics after reading this, just say the word!! Lol!!

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[BenedictGomez]

my sister in-law, their younger daughter, is an Ph.D, tenured professor at Princeton as a social anthropologist specializing in the study of Turkish genocide of the Muslim Cyprian citizens from the late 1800's through mid 1900's ... (I wish I was making that up, but I'm not, and apparently it's culturally relevant enough in the academic world that Columbia University has entered into a bit of a bidding war with Princeton now over having my sister in-law on staff.... [emoji849][emoji849]

Of course they are. Kind of shocked Harvard didnt beat them too it, they must already have one.

 

[trackbiker]

my sister in-law, their younger daughter, is an Ph.D, tenured professor at Princeton as a social anthropologist specializing in the study of Turkish genocide of the Muslim Cyprian citizens from the late 1800's through mid 1900's ...
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Is that really what she is teaching??? It sounds more like that's what her subject was for her thesis for her Phd.

 

[BenedictGomez]

As a millennial, I will say that the sell job that academia was doing in the 2000's on America's youth was wildly unethical. If anything, I fear the BS level has only been elevated as more economically useless degrees/fields of study have permeated academia in the years since I was an undergraduate. The smoke I got blown up my rear end about how priceless my degree was going to be, regardless of what I studied, was palpable at each university to which I applied.

It's a scam that's skyrocketed the last 20 years. The "value" of college education has plummeted in roughly that timeframe. It used to be humorous hearing about all these ridiculously funny & esoteric subjects & degrees, but it's not so amusing anymore.

Ever watch old movies? It's funny how you'll watch a movie from the 50s or 60s and people would be "impressed" by the college graduate, nowadays all you have to have is a pulse & the ability to fill out the Federal loan paperwork & VOILA!!!!!! You're a college graduate. A serious devaluation in being a college graduate, has of course, come with that.

 

[Smellytele]

I remember I was in a stats class and there was the dumbest person I have ever met in the class. I said to myself and to many others “if she gets a degree mine is fucking useless.” It basically is now anyway. Don’t think it really ever helped me get a job. It was more who I knew that got me most jobs. At least interviews.


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[thetrailboss]

Okay, let me explain it to you.

For your argument to make fiscal sense, after the upcoming academic year the colleges must not lose any money ever again. Since not a single person has come remotely close to cracking that code, it's not at all probable. And the demographics are forecasted to get much worse, especially in New England.

If the goal is to stem the bleeding, it makes a LOT of sense to close the colleges now even if it would cost the same amount of money to keep the colleges open for just one more year.

Think of it this way: I steal $100 from your checking account every month. I offer you a deal. You can pay a $100 ransom and I will never take another nickel from your checking account. If you don't pay me the ransom, I will keep taking the $100 every month. According to you, you shouldn't pay the ransom because next month you would have lost $100 anyway.

As I have said earlier, I am all for finding a way to keep these colleges open. But you need a better argument than the one you just made.

Third time: THAT IS NOT MY ARGUMENT. I summarized what JEB SAID. The question raised was why not get the bridge funding and take a year to restructure? That was from the Public Hearing.

And you are one of two NEK residents who think that closing the college is a good idea. That's just outrageous and I imagine meant to get people angry. Stop trolling.

 

[EPB]

It's a scam that's skyrocketed the last 20 years. The "value" of college education has plummeted in roughly that timeframe. It used to be humorous hearing about all these ridiculously funny & esoteric subjects & degrees, but it's not so amusing anymore.

Ever watch old movies? It's funny how you'll watch a movie from the 50s or 60s and people would be "impressed" by the college graduate, nowadays all you have to have is a pulse & the ability to fill out the Federal loan paperwork & VOILA!!!!!! You're a college graduate. A serious devaluation in being a college graduate, has of course, come with that.

This is the scary part to me. The cost has gone up while the preparation for the workforce/adulthood has likely gone down, on average. This is what throwing money at problems buys us, I suppose - the housing crisis all over again in a different segment of the economy...

I went to a well regarded private university for my undergraduate. All-in cost was ~$50k a year at the time. Now it's ~$72k. At this rate, it will cost $100k/year in today's dollars by the time I'll look to send my kids to college. If that does happen, admission will be more about whose can afford tuition than who's most qualified. There was certainly an element of that when I was there, but it will have a material adverse effect on the quality of the students, if unmitigated.

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[Zand]

Jeb Spaulding just announced the schools will not close in the next year.

 

[VTKilarney]

Third time: THAT IS NOT MY ARGUMENT. I summarized what JEB SAID. The question raised was why not get the bridge funding and take a year to restructure? That was from the Public Hearing.

And you are one of two NEK residents who think that closing the college is a good idea. That's just outrageous and I imagine meant to get people angry. Stop trolling.

Take a year to restructure? Isn't that what they are doing now? Isn't that what they did when they consolidated Johnson and Lyndon?

The problem is that you believe that there is some sort of magical land of unicorns and rainbows if the right administrator could just find it. That is nonsense. The demographics are what they are and there is nothing that can be done about it.

At the outset, I said what a devastating loss this will be for my community. I hope that they find a way to keep the college open. But people like you who pretend that there is a path forward without massive increases in state aid are not helping the situation. You need to be honest and admit that state aid is the only way out of this mess. I'm focused on a solution. You are focusing on a proven failed model.

Let me address the point about my being a NEK resident. Either keeping the college open makes sense for the state of Vermont or it doesn't. It has nothing to do with where I live within the state. I refuse to play the NIMBY game if it means trying to block the right thing for the state as a whole. My morals don't blow with the wind like that.

Bottom line: If the state only needs two campuses because of reduced demand, then it makes sense to stop throwing money out the window. If the state is content to keep campuses open and lose millions of dollars, then great for Lyndon. Sine Vermont has NEVER supported its colleges above the bare minimum, I am not sure why things are about to change in this economic climate. But keep dreaming...

 

[VTKilarney]

Jeb Spaulding just announced the schools will not close in the next year.

Unfortunately, the damage is done. Nobody in their right mind would send their kid to LSC or Johnson now. If you thought that the deficit was bad this year, just wait until next year. Spaulding knows it - but he is appeasing the politicians in the area. One year from now he will be saying, "I told you so."

 

[BenedictGomez]

Unfortunately, the damage is done. Nobody in their right mind would send their kid to LSC or Johnson now.

Maybe the acceptance rate will go from 95% to 100%.

 

[thetrailboss]

Take a year to restructure? Isn't that what they are doing now? Isn't that what they did when they consolidated Johnson and Lyndon?

The problem is that you believe that there is some sort of magical land of unicorns and rainbows if the right administrator could just find it. That is nonsense. The demographics are what they are and there is nothing that can be done about it.

At the outset, I said what a devastating loss this will be for my community. I hope that they find a way to keep the college open. But people like you who pretend that there is a path forward without massive increases in state aid are not helping the situation. You need to be honest and admit that state aid is the only way out of this mess. I'm focused on a solution. You are focusing on a proven failed model.

Let me address the point about my being a NEK resident. Either keeping the college open makes sense for the state of Vermont or it doesn't. It has nothing to do with where I live within the state. I refuse to play the NIMBY game if it means trying to block the right thing for the state as a whole. My morals don't blow with the wind like that.

Bottom line: If the state only needs two campuses because of reduced demand, then it makes sense to stop throwing money out the window. If the state is content to keep campuses open and lose millions of dollars, then great for Lyndon. Sine Vermont has NEVER supported its colleges above the bare minimum, I am not sure why things are about to change in this economic climate. But keep dreaming...

You're clearly trying to pick a fight. You're now attributing arguments and things to me that I have not said just so you can continue to rant.

As said, the proposal is withdrawn. They will work towards something. I offered my input to the BOT and powers-to-be and am interested in saving 500 jobs (which as the State Economist said really becomes 2,000 when you consider the ripple effect) and the school. You're spinning your wheels here. #winning.

 

[VTKilarney]

It’s easy for an out of state person, rather than a genuine taxpayer, to expect the money to magically appear, I suppose.

But pray tell, what is your solution?

 

[VTKilarney]

But Spaulding also cautioned in his announcement that “the current configuration of the Vermont State Colleges is not sustainable; it cannot continue for long.”

Translation: We will throw some federal COVID-19 money at the problem and will see you in a year.

 

[Hawk]

Your NEK is a mess up there. Kingdom trails was gutted because of the hurt feelings of a couple land owners, Burke is a mess because of fraudulent owners and now your college is going away. I guess you locals will finally get what you want. Peace and quiet.

 

[VTKilarney]

Your NEK is a mess up there. Kingdom trails was gutted because of the hurt feelings of a couple land owners, Burke is a mess because of fraudulent owners and now your college is going away. I guess you locals will finally get what you want. Peace and quiet.

Losing the college is a genuine tragedy for the local area. Sadly, it is all going to boil down to which town convinces the state to keep a campus.

 

[Hawk]

Losing the college is a genuine tragedy for the local area. Sadly, it is all going to boil down to which town convinces the state to keep a campus.

About half the meteorologists in New England have passed through LSU at one time or another. It is one of the best programs for that field in the country. That alone is a huge loss.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Stanford apparently also snagged COVID19 relief $$$$ for itself.

They announced they're returning it to the Federal government today. Operation Shame is working.

 

[VTKilarney]

About half the meteorologists in New England have passed through LSU at one time or another. It is one of the best programs for that field in the country. That alone is a huge loss.

It is a shell of its former self. There is only one full professor in the entire department.