VTKilarney
Well-known member
That's the type of innovation you see when an institution can't just keep tapping the taxpayer well.
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Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges
- Thread starter Zand
- Start date
That's the type of innovation you see when an institution can't just keep tapping the taxpayer well.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
This is a ******* disgrace. America will be paying for this money-grab fear sham for years to come.
$1.25 BILLION to a state with only about 600,000 humans, and fewer than 50 total COVID19 deaths.
At some point, I'll feel forced to convert a portion of my portfolio to gold futures.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
You too could cover some serious landscape with adverts of your choice if you spent $130 Million per year on it.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Janel Hanrahan, an Associate Professor and Department Chair of the Atmospheric Sciences program, has offered an interesting argument to keep NVU-Lyndon open. Her argument was published in a letter to the local newspaper.
Her argument: Keeping NVU-Lyndon open is necessary to combat climate change.
Her letter is a rambling affair, so I will summarize:
1) The Climate Consensus is a department-led student climate science outreach group that works to increase climate literacy among the general public. Closing the campus will bring this work to an abrupt end.
2) Closing the campus is "silencing those who might otherwise change the world."
A couple of thoughts:
1) Ms. Hanrahan refers to the Atmospheric Sciences program as "nationally recognized." The Titanic was nationally recognized. Big deal. She conveniently leaves out any sort of ranking, which ought to tell you something. Another red flag is that this "nationally recognized" program is chaired by a mere Associate Professor.
2) Her entire argument is based on a false premise - that the Atmospheric Science program would just disappear. A consolidated campus could continue to offer the program and perhaps even add another adjunct or associate professor.
3) Her argument is based on an appeal to emotion - that closing the department would somehow contribute to our planet suffering climatological devastation. "We could have saved the planet if only those kids at Lyndon were allowed to do their research!"
4) Like most arguments I have seen in favor of keeping the campus open, hers involves a heavy dose of hypocrisy. If we want to combat climate change, consolidating the colleges onto one campus is exactly the type of action that is needed. The carbon footprint of three campuses is much greater.
What's most troubling is that the chair of the department's best argument isn't good science. If she can't even make a good argument that is absent of logical fallacies, who can?
Her argument: Keeping NVU-Lyndon open is necessary to combat climate change.
Her letter is a rambling affair, so I will summarize:
1) The Climate Consensus is a department-led student climate science outreach group that works to increase climate literacy among the general public. Closing the campus will bring this work to an abrupt end.
2) Closing the campus is "silencing those who might otherwise change the world."
A couple of thoughts:
1) Ms. Hanrahan refers to the Atmospheric Sciences program as "nationally recognized." The Titanic was nationally recognized. Big deal. She conveniently leaves out any sort of ranking, which ought to tell you something. Another red flag is that this "nationally recognized" program is chaired by a mere Associate Professor.
2) Her entire argument is based on a false premise - that the Atmospheric Science program would just disappear. A consolidated campus could continue to offer the program and perhaps even add another adjunct or associate professor.
3) Her argument is based on an appeal to emotion - that closing the department would somehow contribute to our planet suffering climatological devastation. "We could have saved the planet if only those kids at Lyndon were allowed to do their research!"
4) Like most arguments I have seen in favor of keeping the campus open, hers involves a heavy dose of hypocrisy. If we want to combat climate change, consolidating the colleges onto one campus is exactly the type of action that is needed. The carbon footprint of three campuses is much greater.
What's most troubling is that the chair of the department's best argument isn't good science. If she can't even make a good argument that is absent of logical fallacies, who can?
Last edited:
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Ms. Hanrahan is teaching your child if you send your kid to that overpriced, failing school.
Here's the truth, our student loan debt sham will eventually end, and with it, the life of probably hundreds of crummy, indistinguishable colleges. COVID19 has hugely boosted national debt, likely accelerating that end. America's debt will now exceed GDP for the first time in the life of anyone reading this. Happily, shortly after the death of hundreds of crappy colleges will coincide with the time America's no longer short important jobs like carpenters, electricians, ironworkers, mechanics, plumbers, and the like.
Here's the truth, our student loan debt sham will eventually end, and with it, the life of probably hundreds of crummy, indistinguishable colleges. COVID19 has hugely boosted national debt, likely accelerating that end. America's debt will now exceed GDP for the first time in the life of anyone reading this. Happily, shortly after the death of hundreds of crappy colleges will coincide with the time America's no longer short important jobs like carpenters, electricians, ironworkers, mechanics, plumbers, and the like.
dblskifanatic
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You have no clue! I am from NEK and 90% of my graduating class moved away as in out of state. Same with my siblings classmates. That electric fence analogy is dumb ass talk! Do some people stay absolutely which is that case any where you go.
In fact my home town, over the years I have been gone has actually experienced out of staters looking for that quiet little town.
The whole Montreal thing! There are many people who could give a rats ass about that culture or their activities! I have been there because I have relatives there. I also like visiting different parts of that city as well, but I certainly do not expect everyone should visit there. Heck there are an estimated 16 million skiers in this country why aren’t the rest of the Americans skiing, I know a lot of people in Colorado that do not ski just like Vermont.
Also, I went to LSC and I bet I do better pay wise than some would think here based on discussions. While a school can definitely help with higher pay, it is the individual that takes what ever degree and turn it into a career or some path that makes you happy! LSC was a great stepping stone for me because it was with in commuting distance, had the degree program I wanted and my military benefit could pay for it! It served a purpose because I sure as hell was not getting in Harvard , Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell etc. I was able to get into UVM but it costs 3-4 times as much and my parents income was just over the limit to get financial aide. So ..... LSC served as my spring board and I do not regret it!
I feel bad for those who would prefer a local school and now are not going to have that luxury.
Do I think the tuition is too high now? Absolutely! I think there is some restructuring that could have taken place and that 9 million that Harvard does not want could have settled some of the financial issues. This is more tongue and cheek!
Sorry for the rant!
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dblskifanatic
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Because not everyone can uproot and move then start attending school elsewhere without family support!
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dblskifanatic
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BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Which was precisely my argument.
So having "no clue" & being a "dumbass" here is about you not reading for content. I dont know where you'd find the data, but I'd stake my life on a higher percentage of Vermonters in 2020 leaving for out-of-state colleges than Vermonters in 1980 or 1990, etc..
And I stand by my comment regarding an unusual proportion of northern Vermonters not being well-traveled 20 or 25 years ago (I say that stands even today versus much of our nation, though not as dramatically). It shocked me how many people I met who never left the country, never been to Europe, etc.
SNHU advertisements I presume? Or did you see NVU advertisements? One common theme over the past week I have heard from the VSC community is the lack of advertising outside of the state.
dblskifanatic
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I left VT 39 years ago for the military then returned for 3 years then left for good! In fact my entire family outside of my parents left. A large number of my friend and relatives left as well. I think you are over generalizing!
This is a general United States article that does not specifically call out VT but as you can see that there are many Americans that have not even traveled out of their own state let alone the US. And who cares! There is nothing wrong with that - myself well ya it does not work but I like to see shit and experience the outdoors. But not everyone does the same thing - that would be boring!
As far as Vermonter’s leaving for out of state schools well that did not start happening recently - it was happening 49’years ago too!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealan...nd-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/
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Isn't the basic argument that free will and free markets - even in higher ed, should win the day? Example:
UMASS has over 400 staff in admin at $200K or higher - not one has been laid-off. Heck not one state employee has in MA - are all essential?
In a free market higher ed, where taxpayer money is not supporting the cost, that would never happen - heck it might never even get that high in terms of the number of wage-earners being paid that much - not to work.
On-line ed is going to take the place ( or a at least part of) of a lot of local schools curriculum - some like SUNH- appear to be capitalizing on that trend. Others, not so much. What's the Adam Smith quote? 'Creative destruction'.
Inefficient Statist/Big government money just slows that process down - and places our kids and grandkids generations in unsustainable debt.
No one has seen any nation, free or otherwise, print itself out of economic hardships - unless it is short term and it pays the debt off. We did that after 1945, not since. But then we had gold - if we didn't have a sufficient amount, we couldn't print dollars.
That ended in 1971. Congress and Nixon.
UMASS has over 400 staff in admin at $200K or higher - not one has been laid-off. Heck not one state employee has in MA - are all essential?
In a free market higher ed, where taxpayer money is not supporting the cost, that would never happen - heck it might never even get that high in terms of the number of wage-earners being paid that much - not to work.
On-line ed is going to take the place ( or a at least part of) of a lot of local schools curriculum - some like SUNH- appear to be capitalizing on that trend. Others, not so much. What's the Adam Smith quote? 'Creative destruction'.
Inefficient Statist/Big government money just slows that process down - and places our kids and grandkids generations in unsustainable debt.
No one has seen any nation, free or otherwise, print itself out of economic hardships - unless it is short term and it pays the debt off. We did that after 1945, not since. But then we had gold - if we didn't have a sufficient amount, we couldn't print dollars.
That ended in 1971. Congress and Nixon.
Isn't the basic argument that free will and free markets - even in higher ed, should win the day? Example:
UMASS has over 400 staff in admin at $200K or higher - not one has been laid-off. Heck not one state employee has in MA - are all essential?
In a free market higher ed, where taxpayer money is not supporting the cost, that would never happen - heck it might never even get that high in terms of the number of wage-earners being paid that much - not to work.
On-line ed is going to take the place ( or a at least part of) of a lot of local schools curriculum - some like SUNH- appear to be capitalizing on that trend. Others, not so much. What's the Adam Smith quote? 'Creative destruction'.
Inefficient Statist/Big government money just slows that process down - and places our kids and grandkids generations in unsustainable debt.
No one has seen any nation, free or otherwise, print itself out of economic hardships - unless it is short term and it pays the debt off. We did that after 1945, not since. But then we had gold - if we didn't have a sufficient amount, we couldn't print dollars.
That ended in 1971. Congress and Nixon.
UMASS has over 400 staff in admin at $200K or higher - not one has been laid-off. Heck not one state employee has in MA - are all essential?
In a free market higher ed, where taxpayer money is not supporting the cost, that would never happen - heck it might never even get that high in terms of the number of wage-earners being paid that much - not to work.
On-line ed is going to take the place ( or a at least part of) of a lot of local schools curriculum - some like SUNH- appear to be capitalizing on that trend. Others, not so much. What's the Adam Smith quote? 'Creative destruction'.
Inefficient Statist/Big government money just slows that process down - and places our kids and grandkids generations in unsustainable debt.
No one has seen any nation, free or otherwise, print itself out of economic hardships - unless it is short term and it pays the debt off. We did that after 1945, not since. But then we had gold - if we didn't have a sufficient amount, we couldn't print dollars.
That ended in 1971. Congress and Nixon.
https://www.wcax.com/content/news/S...llor-of-Vermont-State-Colleges-570009051.html
Jeb Spaulding resigning
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Jeb Spaulding resigning
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No surprise. He put himself into an impossible position.
Many are celebrating, but the issues remain. We will see what happens.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Fiscally responsible & reasonable individual loses job is so phenomenally new Vermont.
I think that is being generous for Jeb.
https://vtdigger.org/2020/04/30/castleton-university-president-resigns/
And note the NVU president is also looking for a job. You can't make this stuff up.
And note the NVU president is also looking for a job. You can't make this stuff up.
