Vermont Senate Passes Ski Area Bailout

[Jully]

but my position has always been that medical legalization is a bit of a Trojan horse and that full recreational legalization should be the main focus.

It's should be like many other herbal supplements which have some medical benefits and which don't require a prescription to purchase

There's a plant, it grows in the ground, she uses it at home without bothering anyone. It works. This activity she not be illegal. It's really that simple.

Putting it in the realm of a herbal supplement is a very reasonable argument I think. It certainly fits in with DHS's argument about the problems with synthetic drugs and prescriptions and the like. The medical argument has a lot right with it, and there are proven benefits for medical marijuana, but there are also some overstatements and sketchy research (on both sides). Going for full recreational use does eliminate the medical naysayers argument and you stop supporting the criminal market.

 

[VTKilarney]

but my position has always been that medical legalization is a bit of a Trojan horse and that full recreational legalization should be the main focus

Well said.

So, after trying at least a dozen different prescription drugs with horrific side effects, you think my wife is eager to hop right in and try something else that's synthetic? Who knows what it's cut with.

There's a plant, it grows in the ground, she uses it at home without bothering anyone. It works. This activity she not be illegal. It's really that simple.

The "natural" argument is not at all persuasive. Arsenic is a natural substance. So is the botulinum toxin. You can't, therefore, say that marijuana is better than Marinol merely because it is "natural" rather than synthetic. A study comparing the effectiveness would be persuasive, and perhaps such a study exists.

Again, full disclosure: This is not an issue that I care deeply about. I don't smoke marijuana, but I don't care if anyone else smokes it as long as they are not exposing me to it and they are not getting behind a wheel or engaging in other such behavior. I just see a lot of false claims being made. Kusty is correct when he says that the focus should be on whether or not recreational use should be legal or not. Most of the other claims on a macro-level are riddled with hyperbole and/or inaccuracy.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

calm down man. you're getting really worked up over nothing. your crazy is showing.

 

[Jully]

and anyone who says otherwise will, in the next ~10 years, be proven to have been on the wrong side of history

Already the public opinion of marijuana has changed so much. The original government safety warning things from the 70s were quite something...

 

[Los]

Was this comment directed at me????? I was agreeing with you!

No, me. Krusty is upset that I'm calling him out on his illegal, irresponsible behavior knowing that he would get disbarred if his real identity were known.

 

[VTKilarney]

Already the public opinion of marijuana has changed so much. The original government safety warning things from the 70s were quite something...

The reality is that it will be legal, or effectively legal, in most of the blue states within our lifetimes.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

I talked about smoking pot with people certainly old enough to drive and possibly old enough to vote. That's it. I asked a question, I got an answer, and everyone went about their day. I then made a tongue in cheek comment on an Internet message board calling them squares. Calm the fuck down. "Hey New York bar, this guy I've never met made an anonymous comment about not smoking pot on a ski lift! The horror!"

 

[deadheadskier]

The argument for synthetic is not at all persuasive either. Something in nature exists that is safe and works perfectly fine. Why should people be forced to instead use something synthesized in a lab where a pharmaceutical company, doctor and the government all make a profit off of? Makes zero sense

I'll also add it's insanely expensive to buy both black market or legal MJ. Quite frankly, I could be growing the stuff for her for pennies on the dollar for what I spend.

This is not something the government should be trying to prevent. Even the VT bill doesn't go far enough IMO because it doesn't allow for personal growth. For about $30 a month in supplies and energy costs, I could produce more than enough for what she needs. We wouldn't be bothering anyone. Instead, I have to participate in illegal activity and spend five times as much out of pocket. Can you understand why prohibition might piss me off?

 

[VTKilarney]

The argument for synthetic is not at all persuasive either. Something in nature exists that is safe and works perfectly fine. Why should people be forced to instead use something synthesized in a lab where a pharmaceutical company, doctor and the government all make a profit off of? Makes zero sense

I didn't say it was. I merely said that in order to determine whether one was better than the other an actual study would be persuasive rather than anecdotal evidence. If naturally cultivated THC works better than synthetic THC, then by all means Marinol should be replaced with a natural product.

Having said that, I still maintain that on a macro-level there is a massive amount of hyperbole regarding the medical effectiveness of marijuana. (I'm not saying that there is hyperbole in your situation.)

 

[Domeskier]

No, me. Krusty is upset that I'm calling him out on his illegal, irresponsible behavior knowing that he would get disbarred if his real identity were known.

The real reason he should be disbarred is that he apparently skis 60+ days a year while practicing in NYC. What's the deal with that!!!:grin:

 

[KustyTheKlown]

40. 60 would be impossible for me. I put a lot of miles on the car.

 

[Los]

I talked about smoking pot with people certainly old enough to drive and possibly old enough to vote. That's it. I asked a question, I got an answer, and everyone went about their day. I then made a tongue in cheek comment on an Internet message board calling them squares. Calm the fuck down. "Hey New York bar, this guy I've never met made an anonymous comment about not smoking pot on a ski lift! The horror!"

I told myself that I was done, but then you keep making laughable arguments to defend your behavior. This is really pathetic. Do you actually have clients? You're probably going to find yourself slapped with a malpractice suit if you're not disbarred first. Your career is clearly a ticking time bomb.

 

[Domeskier]

40. 60 would be impossible for me. I put a lot of miles on the car.

Nice.

 

[freeski]

Los: I hope you get bone cancer. In NH you do not automatically get disbarred for pot.

 

[deadheadskier]

woah dude easy

It's one thing to have differing opinions, it's another to wish cancer on someone. I know you're basically joking, but we've all been affected by cancer in our lives. Let's leave that nasty disease out of this.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

lol

i work in house thankfully. i hated law firm/private practice.

 

[Jcb890]

Wow, that's a breathtakingly solid argument. You and Krusty must have been law school classmates. "But your honor, they COULD have been 18, 19, 20, or heck, even 21 year olds! What was I supposed to do, CARD THEM?!?!??!" Good luck with that one. I'm sure Krusty's state disciplinary board will be sympathetic as well.

But in all seriousness, in choosing not to get involved with the pissing match you showed both restraint and wisdom. Traits that Krusty and I severely lack.

To all those who feel they need marijuana for medicinal purposes, isn't that legal now in most states? If not, it surely will be soon. Nevertheless, it remains the case that if you're purchasing on the black market, you're still contributing to criminality. That's not a judgment, that's a fact.

(Edit: "bar" to "board" - my bad)

Its not an argument. I'm just saying that odds are probably pretty good the "kids" in question could have been 18 year olds. Either way, he asked, didn't seem to be an asshole to them or about it in general and in my opinion, generally did the right thing. If he wants to smoke, it doesn't bother me, nor does it harm me.

Supposedly medical marijuana is legal in MA. I couldn't tell you where or how to get it or get it prescribed. Then you still have the stigma of it being federally illegal and in order to get legal medical marijuana, your name and information is then entered and stored in a system, which nobody knows who has access to this. Who knows if potential employers may be able to see that information? MJ is still seen as illegal in terms of drug screening for jobs also, so someone who partakes in medical marijuana is not going to be able to get certain clearances and may not even be eligible to apply for other jobs due to pre-employment screening.

Another aspect is doctors and testing. Like Klusty said, marijuana testing NEEDS to be done. Nobody that is a proponent of marijuana in any form is against testing... from what I have heard/read at least. Everyone and everything I have heard or read about, people want more testing, want strict laws and guidelines. I'm all for testing and finding out exactly what or how it is good or bad for us.

Also, you talk about having more important things to do with/for those in need. Yes, this issue is not life or death for the majority of people. However, what you are completely dismissing is the positives that legalizing for recreation will bring. Once legalized and taxed, this will be a cash cow for the government. Colorado collected so much extra money in taxes that people were actually given money back. I don't have the #'s, but they brought in a ton of new revenue from it. All of that money collected in taxes can be used for good - programs for the needy, drug abuse programs, etc. It is BILLIONS of dollars in money that was not there before. You then also eliminate the black/grey market also because the government and corporations easily have the money and infrastructure to produce and sell the product so that there is no room for illegal activity in the market. If your average consumer can purchase said product which is the same quality or higher from a legal and viable store/shop, they are not going to go searching for Shady Joe to sell him something else, coming from someone illegally which may be a lesser quality than a possible mass-produced government option.

 

[Jcb890]

woah dude easy

It's one thing to have differing opinions, it's another to wish cancer on someone. I know you're basically joking, but we've all been affected by cancer in our lives. Let's leave that nasty disease out of this.

Yikes! Everyone should take a step back and relax. This an important situation to some, but certainly not life or death for the vast majority.

 

[Jcb890]

I told myself that I was done, but then you keep making laughable arguments to defend your behavior. This is really pathetic. Do you actually have clients? You're probably going to find yourself slapped with a malpractice suit if you're not disbarred first. Your career is clearly a ticking time bomb.

Los, i realize you have a stance and are hard-lined on it. That is completely fine.

However, what has he done that's so bad? There's probably plenty of lawyers who partake, many of whom have much bigger and more important things on the line than KustyTheKlown (no offense meant). You never know. As much as you hate it, he did the right thing in asking if it was OK and then not doing it when he received a response that it was not OK. In the end, his profession, career, etc. doesn't really matter for this situation, but feel free to keep thinking that lawyers are some super-humans better than everyone else just because they deal with the law.

 

[Los]

Los: I hope you get bone cancer.

Ouch. I wouldn't wish that on anyone especially someone that I don't know.

I got started with Krusty because he accused me of hating poor people, "dark" people, women, and gays. On top of making his jackass post about his ridiculous behavior on the gondola at Loon.

Anyway, I wish nothing but the best for you and everyone else on this board. Even Krusty (after his inevitable disbarment, that is).