VT crowds Saturday 4/7?

[abc]

I actually don't like skiing with other tele skiers. They seem to live up to the hype that they want to be seen. They seem to get into tele turns on every turn more often under the lift when they really don't need to. I tend to only tele turn if I have to or when it makes the turn easier.

I'm lost!

I thought tele skiers USUALLY do tele turns! Why would anyone want to bother with free heel gear if they're going to do alpine turn all the time anyway??? Isn't fixed heel gear a whole lot more efficient for alpine turns???

I do ski often with a buddy who tele ONLY. She does tele turns exclusively. The only time I saw her doing alpine turn was when the snow was just so manky the only way forward was putting our skis parallel and use that as a "platform" to surf our way down!

 

[Teleskier]

I'm lost!

I thought tele skiers USUALLY do tele turns! Why would anyone want to bother with free heel gear if they're going to do alpine turn all the time anyway??? Isn't fixed heel gear a whole lot more efficient for alpine turns???

I do ski often with a buddy who tele ONLY. She does tele turns exclusively. The only time I saw her doing alpine turn was when the snow was just so manky the only way forward was putting our skis parallel and use that as a "platform" to surf our way down!

It's a very common newbie thing as a newcomer to the sport, to think one "can only" or "HAS TO" only employ a tele turn for their every turn in order to get down the mountain.

Anyone who takes a tele lesson or skis with a tele group, is told on their first day that "whatever turn gets you down the mountain is tele skiing" in order to help people adjust. If you're a newbie, and your old standby parallel skiing turn gets you past that particular mogul or ice patch, then go for it, no tele person would ever judge you. Any turn on tele skis is "tele skiing."

That's why this "being judged for not always doing tele turns by tele people" feels like such BS to me. It's only something newbies think, or maybe someone who has never been in a tele group or tele culture. It's literally the very first thing every experienced tele person or instructor STRESSES and shares with a tele newbie. Sure, over time they'll later feel the stable power of a tele stance, and will likely prefer it over moguls or ice (etc), but it's not the huge barrier that newbie people often seem to put upon themselves. (ie, a tele turn is the only way "that these skis can work").

That's why the previous post was so upsetting... it's LITERALLY the first thing any newcomer hears.

 

[abc]

Something strikes me as backwards. Sorry.

It's a very common newbie thing as a newcomer to the sport, to think one "can only" or "HAS TO" only employ a tele turn for their every turn in order to get down the mountain.

Anyone who takes a tele lesson or skis with a tele group, is told on their first day that "whatever turn gets you down the mountain is tele skiing" in order to help people adjust. If you're a newbie, and your old standby parallel skiing turn gets you past that particular mogul or ice patch, then go for it, no tele person would ever judge you. Any turn on tele skis is "tele skiing."

Parallel turns maybe "skiing". But those aren't tele turns. Anyone who must resort back to parallel turns are just alpine skiers & tele newbie, isn't it?

No matter how you slice it, if you're going to make parallel turns most of the time, fixed heels are way more efficient. So doing majority parallel turns on free heel binding strikes me as a waste of energy/time. So if you intend to go uphills and then come down using parallel turns, you'd be better of using AT gears.

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

Wow. That’s a sad take on your fellow teleskiers and community. To be honest, that ‘hype’ sounds like it comes from some anti-tele environment which somehow you’ve internalized and adopted it?

Why do ‘they’ care where a person turns, or judges you on what kind of turn it is? That just doesn’t happen in any of the tele groups I’ve been part of - where they stress the exact opposite - the ‘correct’ tele turn is always whatever turn that gets you safely down the hill. It’s almost THE one standard tele mantra and creed. Again, it sounds like something non-tele skiers might assume about tele groups. Was this one jerk or one bad experience?

I’ve been teleskiing since before it was really a thing. Three decades ago, I personally left alpine skiing as ‘ruined and polluted’ due to Killington being Killington, NY/NJ skiers drastically changing the atmosphere of skiing there, along with their neon-colored jumpsuits being the last straw, in order to get back to the more pure Nordic roots of skiing. Semi-missing alpine, my Nordic buddies and I would try to go up lifts at alpine slopes (often turned away) on our double-camber XC skis. We’d then try to piece together something we thought could be this “telemark turn” that we had loosely heard about, to get down an alpine slope on free-heel XC gear. One good telemark turn down the entire slope, with many multiple falls in between as we figured it out on our own through trial and error, was a ‘good’ run where we spent an hour just getting down. Pure classic skiing… looking back probably my most fun skiing days.

Then as we did more and more XC tele, suddenly came single camber XC skis, then backcountry XC skis with edges, then NATO gatherings giving ‘official’ Dickie Hall crowd-sourced “3-step turn” instruction (much improved over our own prior “winged-it” way), then came beefier leather boots, then lightweight plastic boots (I was a longtime leather hold-out ‘purist’ until I saw how much better plastic was at one telefest), then wider-deeper-kneepad old-school technique was getting replaced in PSIA teaching by quicker-standier-mono new-school techniques, then came tele skis that for all their looks were simply re-badged alpine skis, plastic tele boots mimicking alpine boots, etc. Yet, to me tele still has its roots in real skiing, even if the equipment has become way better and way easier. Like shaped skis, maybe it’s now too easy?, but anyway - the opposite of a show-off poser fad. Working for your turns, each and every one.

I’ve been in many old-school groups to new-school groups and festivals - I have never experienced this “tele is just a fake show-off fad for under the lifts” dismissal you seem to be speaking to. There are days when I like my old-school turns best, and other days new-school. No one has ever ripped on me for being one or the other. It’s still a thrill for me when I see another tele person on the hill - no matter what turns or form they have. They are putting in the real effort towards the real deal in skiing (yes, I’m personally biased toward tele).

So I feel I have to stand up for decades worth of true tele culture which I have always found as being fun, ‘real’ and accepting. Is this some new snapchat-only millennial take to portray tele as some kind of fancy fake showboat fad? At lift-serviced areas only? NYC/NJ? In short - who ARE these people?? Not like any tele folks or tele groups I know.

So some people show off under the lifts - it’s same for alpiners and boarders - stop judging fellow tele people on their turns. I’m just happy they’re doing it - where I’m not the sole guy on the mountain anymore doing it. Do we need a Planet Fitness “judgement free zone” for tele now - never was that way - and still doesn’t seem to be the tele way for the free the heel, free the mind spirited people I know.

From the other spring skiing thread… YES - You really DO need a new set of friends!!

Wow..... you’re so core. You mind if I breath the same air as you?

 

[Teleskier]

Something strikes me as backwards. Sorry.


Parallel turns maybe "skiing". But those aren't tele turns. Anyone who must resort back to parallel turns are just alpine skiers & tele newbie, isn't it?

No matter how you slice it, if you're going to make parallel turns most of the time, fixed heels are way more efficient. So doing majority parallel turns on free heel binding strikes me as a waste of energy/time. So if you intend to go uphills and then come down using parallel turns, you'd be better of using AT gears.

Respectfully, that way of thinking is clearly from a non-tele person, which you are, so it works out.

A person on tele skis who feels FORCED to make EVERY SINGLE turn 100% a tele turn, is that tele skiing? How about every turn but one being tele, is that tele skiing to you? How about 98% of turns? 95% of turns - sheesh - that might look a quite a number of 'alpine' turns to you, no? How about 80% of turns - is that tele skiing to you, as a non-tele person?

How about tele on everything but moguls - is that tele to you? How about someone doing old-school tele turns - is that tele to you? How about monomark - is that tele to you? (Bet you would say no). Plastic boots vs leather - which is 'real' tele? If the person doesn't have kneepads - is that real tele to you?

How about alpine skiing - someone doing a snowplow turn - is that now "not 'official' alpine skiing" to you? How about an XC-style step turn - oopps - that's not alpine skiing now to you despite the person being on alpine skis? How about someone only doing blue groomer cruising carving - likewise not real alpine skiing to you? How about someone not using the classic knees-together elegant Austrian form - not 'real skiing' to you.

Such strict judgemental commandments you put onto your fellow skiers.

What, unless I telemark with a single tree branch as a single pole the way Sondre Norheim and older Austrians did - now that's not 'true' tele skiing either?

How about "skiing uphill" - is that not truly skiing to you?? Maybe not in NYC or Hunter mountain, but it is to plenty of people.

But feel free - as a non tele skier - to judge tele skiers and tell them how YOU feel what their 'true' telemark skiing 'should' be.

Do you scold your friend if she slips in a snowplow or step turn or parallel turn on her tele skis AS SHE IS TELEMARK SKIING? She should switch to double-camber XC skinny skis to "count" as tele to you? Do you make fun of her 'alpine' plastic boots and/or lift-service skis?

The whole thing is very interesting. And beyond it all - why do you even care?

You ski the type skis you like, with the turns you like, on the trails you like, and let her ski her own preferences with equal freedom and joy.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I’ve been in many old-school groups to new-school groups and festivals - I have never experienced this “tele is just a fake show-off fad for under the lifts” dismissal you seem to be speaking to.

Oh, come ON. Never? That's like saying you've never seen gambling in a casino.

 

[Teleskier]

"Ah-HAH!! I CAUGHT you not making a tele turn" says your non-tele ski house member

They seem to live up to the hype that they want to be seen. They seem to get into tele turns on every turn more often under the lift when they really don't need to.

Gee - you don't think the reason that they might feel compelled to make every single one of their turns under the lift a deep-knee old-school classic kneepad tele turn (versus their perhaps more natural way of teleskiing in the woods which might feature a collection of turns from shallow to deep to snowplow to parallel on any given obstacle) - is precisely this getting CRAP from non-tele skiers about how they 'saw them and caught them CHEATING' or fake "not really" teleskiing or "Gee - that's too hard for you to make REAL tele turns like that all day, isn't it, that's why I'll never do it"

You hear that on lifts all the time. I feel that pressure sometimes - to demonstrate how stable the tele stance is to people - when in the backcountry I wouldn't give a crap if I happen to implement a jump turn in powder, snow plow on boring flats, etc.

We do hear this "what is REAL telemark skiing" crap A LOT - but always from non-telemark skiers. No one in a telemark groups or circles would ever say that to a fellow teleskier.

And you wonder why it's nice to be on a mountain with other kindred teleskiers without this crap all day?

 

[abc]

Now I understand why Smellytele doesn't want to ski with "tele skiers" like you.

 

[abc]

BTW, my friend doesn't consider herself a "tele-skier". Instead, she always calls herself a SKIER who make tele turns most of the time. As she's just a skier, she's not ashamed to make parallel turns from time to time (however rarely).

 

[Teleskier]

Oh, come ON. Never? That's like saying you've never seen gambling in a casino.

Honestly - no. It's counter to everything I know it to be and has been for decades.

So I'm curious from which tele groups or tele individuals you do hear this from? I can't even picture it. Some poser on Hunter Mtn?

It's still feels like something non-tele people might imagine and say about tele people.

I can't imagine anyone in the backcountry commenting on 'how real' another teleskier's this turn or that turn might happen to be. Just wouldn't happen. They might comment on many other things - from hygiene to looking stupid - but their tele turns?? Just wouldn't happen.

 

[Teleskier]

Now I understand why Smellytele doesn't want to ski with "tele skiers" like you.

And now you likewise understand why I don't like to ski with judgemental "telling people how they should ski" Utah people like you. So we'll just call it even.

And nice way to thank someone for trying to help you out on your "I'm lost" question.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

woah

 

[cdskier]

In other news...the wind in VT is apparently quite brutal right now. Number of power outages is growing by the minute. Looks like a significant portion of the Mad River Valley currently has no power.

 

[Jully]

woah

+1

So crowds will be pretty bad on Saturday.

 

[abc]

And now you likewise understand why I don't like to ski with judgemental "telling people how they should ski" Utah people like you. So we'll just call it even.

And nice way to thank someone for trying to help you out on your "I'm lost" question.

First, get your geography right.

Second, your “trying to help” clearly shows you’re the one who’s “lost”. So I’ll call that “even”.

As for “judgmental people”? You can find one by looking into the mirror. You will also find an angry person in there too.

 

[kingslug]

Ok back to the weather...if I'm reading all the reports right it looks like a small amount of snow will fall on VT and be blown into the trees by 40 mph winds..thus..frozen groomers and thats it. What say the gods of weather???

 

[drjeff]

It's April.... The weather report for the weekend ISN'T for classic Spring temps and soft snow... Most of the masses are done for the season. There's more areas open than typically at this time of the season, many with more acres than usual for early April. Crowding just isn't going to be a real issue this weekend. And the snow surfaces should be fairly similar across the vast majority of New England. Get out on the hill and go for it... The number of opportunities to do so this season is dwindling.. .

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[ss20]

Ok back to the weather...if I'm reading all the reports right it looks like a small amount of snow will fall on VT and be blown into the trees by 40 mph winds..thus..frozen groomers and thats it. What say the gods of weather???

Wind will die down, Killington on south looks like it'll fair OK. Mount Snow and Stratton have the best chances of 6+". Noaa has them forecasted for 4"-6" but the "high end" snowfall is 8"-10"...which surprises me.

My guess if you'll find soft turns and then be rudely awakened by a snow rock (a frozen mogul).

 

[kingslug]

Just trying to decide about going to k and meeting up with a bunch of people..and spending over 600..or going to stowe and ski with just my wife...which is all paid for already. Leaning toward k..been feeling like a hermit lately..

 

[Smellytele]

woah

Oh god! What did I start? throw the meat in the room and let the lions fight it out. Sorry about the hijacking