What area has the best layout for early season?

[Puck it]

I was at Cannon on Saturday and I think they have the best configuration for early season skiing. Not like this would happen there though.

They have the Cannonball Quad which starts at about 3000' and goes to tthe summit. They would use the the Tram to bring people to the summit and then down load using it. They could blow snow on Tramway, Upper Cannon, Upper Ravine, Skylight, Taft (to Upper Ravine, and Cannonball (aka Profile). This would blow away the amount of terrain K-ton could have.

Just a thought.

 

[deadheadskier]

Mount Ellen has a great set up.

Sugarloaf easily has the most terrain available off of one Upper Mountain lift. Use the double runner to get to Spillway and there are probably 25-30 trails you could pick from all above 2500 feet in elevation.

 

[billski]

This is a great topic. "Best Setup" depends on your skill level. I remember last fall someone who wanted to ski greens early season. I don't recall the resort, but examining the open trails revealed that all the advanced trails funneled into the one or two greens at the bottom. IMHO that's a formula for disaster, mostly for the green skier as the advanced skiers rocket through.

 

[Puck it]

This is a great topic. "Best Setup" depends on your skill level. I remember last fall someone who wanted to ski greens early season. I don't recall the resort, but examining the open trails revealed that all the advanced trails funneled into the one or two greens at the bottom. IMHO that's a formula for disaster, mostly for the green skier as the advanced skiers rocket through.

Sounds like the K-ton set up. The Cannon set up would provide blues and blacks.

 

[kcyanks1]

Sugarbush North has a great setup with the GMX there fore uploading and downloading, taking you right to the Summit Quad, as well as a lodge at the bottom of the Summit Quad for bathrooms and food.

MRG (ignoring the lack of snowmaking) in theory has a good setup since the single has a midstation, but as I recall from an AZ Challenge question I asked a couple years ago, they can't do much downloading on the single (have to run slowly, only so many chairs). Though you'd have to go to the base for bathrooms/food.

Problem with Killington is that the Canyon Quad doesn't go all the way back to the K1 for downloading. Also, no access to bathrooms/food while you are skiing the Canyon.

Can't think of any other eastern areas that I've skied that have as good a setup as Sugarbush North.

 

[WWF-VT]

When is Highway Star going to chime in with his new lift and snowmaking plan for early and late season skiing at Killington ? Doesn't anyone remember his Killington=Fail posts from last fall ?

 

[Puck it]

When is Highway Star going to chime in with his new lift and snowmaking plan for early and late season skiing at Killington ? Doesn't anyone remember his Killington=Fail posts from last fall ?

Yes, but I was trying to start one with the existing lift configuration.

 

[billski]

Being a tad philosophical for a moment, I suppose most greenies don't come out early in the season. I suspect the individual who raised the question was more the exception than the rule. Thoughts?

 

[Vortex]

Waterville also has a good set up. Short run to cover with snow. Lodge at the the base of high country. Cannon would be great, but state run. Key is what you do with the potential. October turns.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would agree that most novice skiers aren't as gung ho about getting out early season.

 

[Puck it]

Waterville also has a good set up. Short run to cover with snow. Lodge at the the base of high country. Cannon would be great, but state run. Key is what you do with the potential. October turns.

That would be nice for Cannon, but early November would be great. I know it will never happen at Cannon though. Dreaming.

 

[thetrailboss]

Agree with the comments that Sugarbush had the best configuration with what they had at North. But that is not the game anymore for early season skiing.

 

[riverc0il]

Cannon gets the nod on this one hands down. The summit lodge really gives Cannon the edge. Skiers and riders could actually get on the tram in street clothes and boot up at the summit if they wanted to. Mount Ellen has a good setup but up loading and down loading suck at slow speeds due to no snow on the off/on ramps. The mid-mountain lodge at Ellen is really small and pretty limited terrain just off the Summit Quad. LP has a slightly larger mid-mountain lodge but not a ton of terrain options with snow making. Spillway at the Loaf would offer a lot of terrain with good elevation for snow making but no mid-mountain or summit lodge and then you have slow uploading and downloading. Waterville's summit double sucks, slowest lift around and very little vertical/terrain.

Other options might include Loon with Camp III and the North Peak accessible via a Gondi ride for up loading (and a summit lodge) though that would involve a lot of snow making to make possible so not ideal from ski area management perspective. MRG has a really low downhill capacity for the single... something like 1/7 ratio for chairs going down plus the line would need to run slowly for up/down loading AND.... no snow making.

Of course it will never happen again (I heard that they did do it once), but I can not imagine a better setup than Cannon for early season.

 

[Puck it]

Cannon gets the nod on this one hands down. The summit lodge really gives Cannon the edge. Skiers and riders could actually get on the tram in street clothes and boot up at the summit if they wanted to. Mount Ellen has a good setup but up loading and down loading suck at slow speeds due to no snow on the off/on ramps. The mid-mountain lodge at Ellen is really small and pretty limited terrain just off the Summit Quad. LP has a slightly larger mid-mountain lodge but not a ton of terrain options with snow making. Spillway at the Loaf would offer a lot of terrain with good elevation for snow making but no mid-mountain or summit lodge and then you have slow uploading and downloading. Waterville's summit double sucks, slowest lift around and very little vertical/terrain.

Other options might include Loon with Camp III and the North Peak accessible via a Gondi ride for up loading (and a summit lodge) though that would involve a lot of snow making to make possible so not ideal from ski area management perspective. MRG has a really low downhill capacity for the single... something like 1/7 ratio for chairs going down plus the line would need to run slowly for up/down loading AND.... no snow making.

Of course it will never happen again (I heard that they did do it once), but I can not imagine a better setup than Cannon for early season.

Did not think about the option of riding Tram up in street clothes. I agree hands down best access around. I may email them and suggest for fun I would like to see the repsonse.

 

[deadheadskier]

So, theoretically, Cannon would also be the best set up for late season too yes?

 

[riverc0il]

So, theoretically, Cannon would also be the best set up for late season too yes?

Not sure about Late season. Aspect and snow preservation mean more than an ideal lift setup. Snow does linger high up on Cannon for a long time. But I think the Loaf would be the supreme late season location with uploading. I can not imagine any New England resort could have better snow preservation than the loaf. Upload options could be either Superquad or the Double Double up to Spillway with a Timberline option. Not sure what pattern the snow melts out there but I am pretty sure no one retains as much up high as late as the Loaf does.

 

[EPB]

Just for sentimental value, I'll add that Wildcat had a pretty good early/late season setup until they took the Gondola out and ran the HSQ up the old triple line. It would have been fairly similar to Cannon except the lodge isn't as conducive to traffic.

 

[Puck it]

Not sure about Late season. Aspect and snow preservation mean more than an ideal lift setup. Snow does linger high up on Cannon for a long time. But I think the Loaf would be the supreme late season location with uploading. I can not imagine any New England resort could have better snow preservation than the loaf. Upload options could be either Superquad or the Double Double up to Spillway with a Timberline option. Not sure what pattern the snow melts out there but I am pretty sure no one retains as much up high as late as the Loaf does.

A lot of the runs at the top of Cannon are due north. I think with enough snow blown on them they would hold up well.

 

[EPB]

I've also gotta throw out the Canadian sleeper picks:

Tremblant: Gondola for up/downloading. Huge summit lodge, highly elevated triple on the "north side" that services a terrain park, so it already has an abundance of snow.

Mont Saint Anne: Gondola for up/downloading. Again, summit lodge. They have a north side high speed quad that covers 1200 vertical, which is a little on the long side, but allegedly holds snow into June as is. They also have a high alpine quad that services a terrain park on its lift line.

Le Massif: Has a summit lodge that people drive to. Only needs to run their high elevation HSQ. Gets 250 inches of snow per year way the hell up in Quebec..... Major downside is that the base is at 150 feet so its high alpine quad likely has a base around 1500 feet.

 

[thetrailboss]

Cannon gets the nod on this one hands down. The summit lodge really gives Cannon the edge. Skiers and riders could actually get on the tram in street clothes and boot up at the summit if they wanted to. Mount Ellen has a good setup but up loading and down loading suck at slow speeds due to no snow on the off/on ramps. The mid-mountain lodge at Ellen is really small and pretty limited terrain just off the Summit Quad. LP has a slightly larger mid-mountain lodge but not a ton of terrain options with snow making. Spillway at the Loaf would offer a lot of terrain with good elevation for snow making but no mid-mountain or summit lodge and then you have slow uploading and downloading. Waterville's summit double sucks, slowest lift around and very little vertical/terrain.

Cannon does have a bigger lodge at the top (albeit a lot of wasted space because of the tram IIRC) but SB North is deceiving because there is a significant amount of terrain available off the top. The last time I skied there for early season turns, they had enough snow to open everything from Glen House up. When you consider that Way Back is open, that gives you Black Diamond, FIS, Panorama, Rim Run (Upper and Lower), Lookin Good (both), Elbow and Lower Elbow, Bravo, Exterminator, and maybe some glades. That must be pretty close to the amount that Cannon would have open with Cannonball Express going.