What if Super Combined was say.....Moguls and GS or Super G.....

[deadheadskier]

If you could equal weight a bump run and a racing run to determine the overall best at both disciplines........who takes it? The WC bump skier or the WC racer?

I think that would be a cool WC or Olympic event. A true test of who is the King of the Hill.....the best overall skier in the world.

 

[drjeff]

I'd say the racer, just based on the fact that you see many former elite racers successfully make the transition to other ski disciplines such as skier cross, big mountain elite level free skiing, etc whereas you might see a former WC mogul skier in a Warren Miller Movie, but not competing at an elite level in a different skiing discipline.

Too be an elite level racer, you've got to have such a fundamental grasp of core technique and uncanny feel for the snow that it is "easy" to take those core fundamentals to other disciplines. Plus in racing you've got to be good at all types of turn radii, snow surfaces, control of one's body in the air, etc.

To take absolutely nothing away from elite mogul skiers, because they are INCREDIBLE athletes and skiers too, but elite level mogul skiers can essentially focus on training the same course that they will see whether its in Quebec, California, New Zealand, Chile, France, etc. This today is even more so with modern grooming equipment and seeded mogul courses. With the exception of desired snow hardness the same can't be said of WC alpine race courses

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[2knees]

I'd say the racer, just based on the fact that you see many former elite racers successfully make the transition to other ski disciplines such as skier cross, big mountain elite level free skiing, etc whereas you might see a former WC mogul skier in a Warren Miller Movie, but not competing at an elite level in a different skiing discipline.

Too be an elite level racer, you've got to have such a fundamental grasp of core technique and uncanny feel for the snow that it is "easy" to take those core fundamentals to other disciplines. Plus in racing you've got to be good at all types of turn radii, snow surfaces, control of one's body in the air, etc.

To take absolutely nothing away from elite mogul skiers, because they are INCREDIBLE athletes and skiers too, but elite level mogul skiers can essentially focus on training the same course that they will see whether its in Quebec, California, New Zealand, Chile, France, etc. This today is even more so with modern grooming equipment and seeded mogul courses. With the exception of desired snow hardness the same can't be said of WC alpine race courses

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app

i disagree because i don't think a typical racer would be anywhere near fast enough nor able to throw the airs necessary IN a mogul course to have any kind of reasonable score.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'd say the opposite. I've skied with a lot of elite level former Division 1 collegiate racers that don't ski bumps well at all; can't hold a line a high rate of speed and certainly don't know what to do in the air. On the other hand, I've never skied with an elite level bump skier who can't rip groomers well.

and to your first point Dr. Jeff, skiercross is far closer to racing than it is bumps and I'd be willing to bet a higher percentage of the big mountain skiing competitors come from a bump/freestyle background than they do a race background. I know Darren Ralves did well big mountain skiing post racing career, but I'd say he's more the exception than the norm.

It's an interesting debate and I'd love to see it settled someday at the WC level. I've always tried to excel at both styles of skiing (even though my racing career lasted all of 5 weeks). I'm far more a bumper / off piste skier at heart, but being able to carve up groomed terrain at a high level has always been something I've strived to do well also.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Bumper wins.

Any bumper can ski extremely fast on groomed trails if asked.

Any racer cant ski a massive zipper line in bumps if asked.

 

[2knees]

I'd say the opposite. I've skied with a lot of elite level former Division 1 collegiate racers that don't ski bumps well at all; can't hold a line a high rate of speed and certainly don't know what to do in the air. On the other hand, I've never skied with an elite level bump skier who can't rip groomers well.

and to your first point Dr. Jeff, skiercross is far closer to racing than it is bumps and I'd be willing to bet a higher percentage of the big mountain skiing competitors come from a bump/freestyle background than they do a race background. I know Darren Ralves did well big mountain skiing post racing career, but I'd say he's more the exception than the norm.

It's an interesting debate and I'd love to see it settled someday at the WC level. I've always tried to excel at both styles of skiing (even though my racing career lasted all of 5 weeks). I'm far more a bumper / off piste skier at heart, but being able to carve up groomed terrain at a high level has always been something I've strived to do well also.

You were much more long winded than I but we said the same thing. I think you wrote as I p0sted my answer.

 

[2knees]

A timed event combined with a judged event. That would add to the intrigue.

 

[Savemeasammy]

Bump skier. No question. In order to be a good bump skier you need excellent body control and the ability to turn much more quickly, and, IMHO, a greater deal of confidence... Good bump skills usually translate well into other aspects (types?) of skiing.

Running gates (or whatever you racers call it!) certainly requires speed and good edging/carving, but I think that the advantage the racer has over the bumper in gates would not be enough to overcome the difference once the tables are turned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Warp Daddy]

Interesting combo for certain , i always am suspect about ANY judged event . For certain athletic skills are involved to a very high degree but the ARTSY fartsy style points emm being a skeptic makes me believe that OTHER perhaps less altruistic motives are at work

So in the spirit of fun lets create yet another INTERESTING combined and add a third dimension , Deunken Ski Jumping follwed by Drunken Curling ....... OK i'll shut up now and go back to my corner :dunce:

 

[Tin]

Maybe an AZ "Bump, Carve, or Bust" get together is in order? Can we change skis in between bumping and carving?

 

[gmcunni]

add a 3rd disapline, slopestyle, to the mix.. who wins that comp? is a racer or bumper going to thro big air tricks? a slopestyler (is that a word?) could muddle down the race course (like the bumper can), might have a crappy line in the bumps but likely to thro some air.

 

[Tin]

Racers catch plenty of air and can land at high speeds. It is just a matter of throwing a trick in.

 

[deadheadskier]

add a 3rd disapline, slopestyle, to the mix.. who wins that comp? is a racer or bumper going to thro big air tricks? a slopestyler (is that a word?) could muddle down the race course (like the bumper can), might have a crappy line in the bumps but likely to thro some air.

the reason I suggest bumps is because modern bump skiers now throw airs almost as impressive as slopestyle competitors. But, if you want to throw a rail in the middle of the course, go for it. I know I'd skip it and take the point reduction :lol:

 

[timm]

Most slopestyle skiers are probably awesome overall skiers but I think the slope style specialist is easily the most likely to be weakest overall as their specialty requires the least amount of "general skiing" technique/skill and is the most ultra specialized. But then again I also don't like the slopestyle/half pipe competitions and don't care about air tricks to begin with so I may be biased.

I'd love to see a giant slalom style race with a bump section, that would be exciting.

 

[Hawkshot99]

So far every person who typically says they love bumps had said that the mogul specialist would win. surprisingly the people who do mostly groomers say the racer would win.....
You would be amazed at what these top level athletes can do outside of their disipline.


Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2

 

[goldsbar]

I've never raced, but it's clear that elite level racing on steep injected courses has little in common with just ripping groomers. Those guys are dynamically carving terrain at hyper fast speeds that most people couldn't even hold an edge on. They're doing that while making line choices and hitting terrain irregularities. We've all seen local racers who suck at bumps. That doesn't mean the ability isn't there. The WC elites are a different ball game.

No idea who would actually win but it's a great idea. Real test would be a GS course ending with a bump run. Let's see how they do both on the same pair of skis!

 

[MadMadWorld]

I'd say the racer, just based on the fact that you see many former elite racers successfully make the transition to other ski disciplines such as skier cross, big mountain elite level free skiing, etc whereas you might see a former WC mogul skier in a Warren Miller Movie, but not competing at an elite level in a different skiing discipline.

Too be an elite level racer, you've got to have such a fundamental grasp of core technique and uncanny feel for the snow that it is "easy" to take those core fundamentals to other disciplines. Plus in racing you've got to be good at all types of turn radii, snow surfaces, control of one's body in the air, etc.

To take absolutely nothing away from elite mogul skiers, because they are INCREDIBLE athletes and skiers too, but elite level mogul skiers can essentially focus on training the same course that they will see whether its in Quebec, California, New Zealand, Chile, France, etc. This today is even more so with modern grooming equipment and seeded mogul courses. With the exception of desired snow hardness the same can't be said of WC alpine race courses

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app

Which racers have converted to big mountain free riding?

 

[deadheadskier]

Which racers have converted to big mountain free riding?

Darren Ralves

There was also a former US Alpine Race Team member who dominated skiercross for a bit

 

[MadMadWorld]

Darren Ralves

There was also a former US Alpine Race Team member who dominated skiercross for a bit

That's cool but freestyle and skier cross are separate from free riding.

 

[Highway Star]

Bump skiers can't carve to save their lives....and then try to make it through gates...? HAHAHHAAA.

As an ex racer, I don't really like to ski bumps, but I certainly can ski them pretty well.