Whiteface Gondola incident - Hoodlums threatened to push passenger out

[mondeo]

Yes whenever this topic arose over casual conversation our campus chief of security always said if he's INSIDE your home at nite and you believe you need to shoot the perp to ensure your personal safety ------------ make damn sure he's INSIDE the home when found

And if you catch him stepping in through the window, wait for him to get fully in the house, or drag him into the house after you shoot him.

 

[faceplant]

Interesting responses..thanks.

I'll admit to being appalled by the video that is the foundation for this thread, but almost as upset by the chest-thumping by lots of the responses. It's that adolescent macho that so many of the respondents imply that seems to be what the original "bad boys" were pulling on the gondola-riding victim in the first place.

if feel ya doc- i do

but the way i see it- if i'm going out that gondy door i wont be alone- nuthin machoabout it just self defnse- see id need a good cushion to brake my fall at the botom- that'd be article 35.20 subsecton wtf of FPC (faceplants penal code

and if somebody sticks a camera in my face the next thing he'll have a nice video of his inside nostril hairs and all

 

[ed-drum]

Most burglaries are committed during the day. What does catching someone at night have to do with anything? People should not be presumptuous about law. I warn people not to "smoke" anything in public here in N.Y., for they will (that's mandatory) lose their drivers' license for 6 months and can go to jail for up to 3 months if caught. It's not just a ticket, but they can knock it down to a violation, IF they want to. Hunter has cops watching the parking lot. The point of this discussion is that if you are threatened with bodily harm anywhere, defend yourself. Don't wimp out. What do you have to lose?

 

[deadheadskier]

The point of this discussion is that if you are threatened with bodily harm anywhere, defend yourself. Don't wimp out. What do you have to lose?

I have had physical confrontations in life. I have also walked away from situations where I've been threatened with bodily harm plenty though. I will only throw a punch if it's the last possible resort...and I don't consider that 'wimping out'.

 

[Euler]

Interesting responses..thanks.

I'll admit to being appalled by the video that is the foundation for this thread, but almost as upset by the chest-thumping by lots of the responses. It's that adolescent macho that so many of the respondents imply that seems to be what the original "bad boys" were pulling on the gondola-riding victim in the first place.

+1


Also, it's hard to believe that anyone would suggest that if I saw someone setting an outbuilding of mine on fire that a reasonable response would be to shoot him dead? Most civilized societies have moved forward from the old "an eye for an eye" code of vengeance, and this is a big step backwards from that isn't it?

 

[RENO]

if feel ya doc- i do

but the way i see it- if i'm going out that gondy door i wont be alone- nuthin machoabout it just self defnse- see id need a good cushion to brake my fall at the botom- that'd be article 35.20 subsecton wtf of FPC (faceplants penal code

and if somebody sticks a camera in my face the next thing he'll have a nice video of his inside nostril hairs and all

I'd go Rambo on them. Pull out my knife and start slicing and dicing. Blood would be splattered all over the windows. I would cut their ears off and pop out their eyeballs. Slice their throats and pull their tongues through the hole. I'd use their heads to bust the windows out and hang their bodies out the gondola. I would exit the gondola dripping in blood with a handful of ears and eyeballs and toss them at the people standing around. Then I would clip in my bindings and ride away.

Ummm...
Well...
Something like that...

;-)

:lol:

 

[SkiDork]

How do you open a Gondola door from the inside?

 

[Grassi21]

I'd go Rambo on them. Pull out my knife and start slicing and dicing. Blood would be splattered all over the windows. I would cut their ears off and pop out their eyeballs. Slice their throats and pull their tongues through the hole. I'd use their heads to bust the windows out and hang their bodies out the gondola. I would exit the gondola dripping in blood with a handful of ears and eyeballs and toss them at the people standing around. Then I would clip in my bindings and ride away.

Ummm...
Well...
Something like that...

;-)

:lol:

you inspire me sir. i would like to hear more about your beliefs. ;-)

 

[jaywbigred]

Most burglaries are committed during the day. What does catching someone at night have to do with anything?

Probably because the common law definition of burglary carried with it the requirement that it occur at night:

"The breaking and entering the house of another in the night time, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felony be actually committed or not."

Not sure if that definition survives in any states (the MPC has certainly modified it to remove the "night" requirement).

People should not be presumptuous about law....The point of this discussion is that if you are threatened with bodily harm anywhere, defend yourself. Don't wimp out. What do you have to lose?

Your freedom? Your life? Money defending a criminal case? I.e. plenty!

This is horrible advice. In many states, including New York, if you are threatened with deadly physical force (outside of your own home), you have a legal duty to escape, if a safe escape route is available, before you can use deadly physical force in self-defense. When the threat is not of "deadly" physical force, you can stay and fight with reasonable (non-deadly) physical force of your own, but remember that a criminal jury must find your use of force to be warranted and reasonable in the situation. You are not going to have time to stop and ponder this question ("Will a jury find it reasonable for me to shoot in the face a big dude on the street who is threatening me with a butter knife?"). And sometimes, even when a criminal jury finds it reasonable, a civil jury might not, and then you go bankrupt (see Bernhard Goetz).

Query how often an act of violence is a reasonable response to mere verbal threats?

Violence should always be the last choice (unless your inside your home, in the state of NY, in which case you can pretty much kill anyone).

 

[Grassi21]

Query how often an act of violence is a reasonable response to mere verbal threats?

Violence should always be the last choice (unless your inside your home, in the state of NY, in which case you can pretty much kill anyone).

+1

 

[icedtea]

That dude may have a case for the intentional infliction of emotional distress, especially if it has manifested in physical symptoms after this incident.

 

[ed-drum]

Horrible advice? You sir, are assuming that I said to kill someone in every situation. I did no such thing. A verbal threat, "I'm going to kill you" is called menacing. Read the definition of menacing and the defenses from prosecution. Obviously you have never been attacked by anyone. You obviously are not old enough to experience the abuse my friends and I were subjected to in High School at the hands of jealous morons because our hair was long. We defended ourselves out of necessity and a lot of the bullies were put in the hospital for it and us victims never got in any kind of trouble. Juries have the right to be fully informed regardless of law. In some states that's mandatory. Jealous because the musicians' such as myself attracted girls and they didn't. And the school officials at the time did NOTHING about bullying. They finally did after the parents did something and the abuse stopped immediately. Well, look what happens at schools now when bullying is ignored. They finally recognized bullying only after the victims snap and start shooting. And your "advice" was flawed in the first place. How contentious.

 

[campgottagopee]

Can we adjourn for breakfast??

 

[jaywbigred]

A verbal threat, "I'm going to kill you" is called menacing. Read the definition of menacing and the defenses from prosecution.

Okay, I did:

"§ 120.15 Menacing in the third degree

A person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical injury.

Menacing in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor."

Menacing in the 2nd and 1st degree require greater levels of threats. 2nd degree requires the threat to be repeated across a span of time, and 1st degree requires the brandishing of a weapon or of something appearing like a weapon.

I stand firm in my opinion that advising someone that if they

are threatened with bodily harm anywhere, defend yourself. Don't wimp out. What do you have to lose?

is bad advice.

Obviously you have never been attacked by anyone.

I was mugged as a 12 year old in Central Park. I was in 2 fights in HS, both of which times I was not the aggressor. I was in 1 fight in college, where my then girlfriend's ex-boyfriend punched her in the stomach 5 feet away from me.

You obviously are not old enough to experience the abuse my friends and I were subjected to in High School at the hands of jealous morons because our hair was long.

I'm in my 20s. Don't know what you're looking for here...

We defended ourselves out of necessity and a lot of the bullies were put in the hospital for it and us victims never got in any kind of trouble.

I am very glad you were able to stand up to the bullying successfully, and it is horrible that it took your school so long to respond. Unforgivable. My mother has been the head of a Pre-K-8th Grade school for 17 years, and I know bullying is among her most constant concerns/something with which she is very vigilant in dealing.

Juries have the right to be fully informed regardless of law.

There are extremely strict rules of civil and criminal procedure, including the rules of evidence, in every state, and they effect and restrict what a jury can and cannot hear. Further, Jury Instructions (i.e., what a Judge reads to a Jury when instructing them on the verdict they are deciding upon) are extremely intricate, and faulty implementation of same are a common basis for successful appeals.

And your "advice" was flawed in the first place. How contentious.

My advice was based on the Model Penal Code, which is the basis for criminal laws in most states, and I only posted it after some other quasi-misinformation was posted in this thread, as a hope to prevent anyone on here from getting in serious trouble by using poor advice. This forum is read by people in many states, so I based my response on the MPC. I was not aware that NY state has altered the MPC to the degree that it has, regarding defense of burglary and arson at one's home. Thank you for bringing that to my and all of our attentions.

It doesn't change my opinion that your advice was poor, and that violence should always be the last recourse.

 

[Warp Daddy]

Can we adjourn for breakfast??

AGREE

PUCK those liitle FUKES Nail their asses to the full extent of the law and ban them for life --------------------end of story

 

[jaywbigred]

AGREE

PUCK those liitle FUKES Nail their asses to the full extent of the law and ban them for life --------------------end of story

I also agree. Ban them. If they keep acting like this, they will get their's eventually, for sure.

 

[SkiDork]

How do you open a Gondola door from the inside?

nobody answered this.

 

[tjf67]

nobody answered this.

There is a round metal kick plate you kick and it unlocks.

 

[billski]

nobody answered this.

Just as well. don't want youse hoodlums getting ideas.

 

[SkiDork]

is it at all possible?