Why people don't take lessons

[2knees]

Cut the bullshit. You just want to beeline to the bumps like me... Lesson shmlesson...

BUSTED.

 

[tjf67]

I have never paid for a lesson in my life. I schooled myself.
I have a friend who is fundamentaly strong when it comes to the traditional carving. I watched him and immitated him. Read the mags and got tips out of them. I consider myself an above average varver now.

I have another friend who can carve and bump. I watched him in the bumps and tried to immitate him. Also read the mags to get a few tips. I am now a decent bump skier.

I am now trying to get comfortable in the air. I have a friend that is a freestyle coach that I caught up with this year. I will be spending time following him this winter.

I love being able to carve on the steep hardpack. Get into the bumps, adjust my style and go through them.
IMO they are two different styles each having its own merit. Knowing how to do both will keep you out of trouble.

I used to take golf lessons every year. I was an 18. I stopped taking lesson 3 years ago and dropped to a 9. I am not discounting the value of lessons for some but for me I can teach myself better than anyone can teach me. I know my body and its limitations. I can work around them and get the desired results.

 

[jack97]

Of course you'd get something out of it. Developing a strong overall technique benefits all aspects of a person's skiing.

What is the PSIA approach to bumps is sub-par?

You're thinking like a one trick pony.

No argument there and I'm okay with your observation. If there's no powder and I'm not dabbling in the trees, I'll be in the bumps. I wouldn't want it any other way. In my opinion, groomers are only good for getting to/from the bumps, or if skiing with others that aren't as into the bumps as me.

Dunno about that argument, some of the tech wc bumpers are using is keeping the feet under the hips both in the lateral and aft/fore direction. The vid of bode shows how he gets on the backseats and jets out from the trough, sometime he drops his hips to low to create more edge angle thus getting out of his turn too late. If you ever get a chance to see John Smarts mogul vid, at the end they have him, lane barret and another bumper, the three were free skiing in the backcountry. They were using essential bumping techniques applied to different terrain. Man, I wish I could ski like that.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I find I pick up a lot by watching other good skiers and emulating what they do. I

I agree that this is one way to improve.

The other way around works too. If you have someone watch you who knows what they are talking about, they can give you something to work on to improve technique flaws that you might not even know you had.

 

[AdironRider]

Theres an old addage that you can only learn by doing right? Ive never taken a lesson in my life and taught myself how to ride simply by riding with others who were better than me. After a couple days of being ragged on for holding back the group I found myself learning more myself than any instructor couldve taught me with words. Thats all an instructor can do really, is tell you vaguely how to move, you have to figure it out for yourself either way.

 

[bobbutts]

I took a ton of lessons (Mass Ski Club) when I was in my young teens and they were helpful for sure at the time. Mostly it was cool to bomb down the mtn and cut lines though. I learned to snowboard with 0 lessons and was fine with it. I don't think it's an ego problem, I just progressed fast enough without and had friends to give unofficial lessons too and learning something 'the hard way' seems to have a different impact over being told what to do.
It's been so long I don't feel qualified to say whether or not a lesson would be helpful, but it couldn't hurt too much. Will this be the year I take one? Board or skis?

 

[PA Ridge Racer]

I havent seen a lesson since i was 12 I think. Part of it is stubborness. I do feel I can progress as I go. Part of it is I just want to ski. (always felt this way even when I was forced to take the lesson on the school ski trips. I get very impatient when I get to the Mt.) Another part of it is money. We pay enough for the season pass / lift tickets / equipment / lodging etc. Lessons are a non essential added expense for me. Believe me... I could use one I'm sure...but I can still have a great time without one. If anything I could seriously use a bump lesson.

 

[campgottagopee]

My .02---At one point in my life I was full cert PSIA, and a full-time instructor. To this day I still attend 2-3 clinics each year at my home hill with the ski school and truly enjoy/ get alot out of it. Also, my skiing buddy is an ex-PSIA'er so there's always constant critisim going back and forth that really helps us stay as sharpm as we can.

Anyway, the biggest thing wrong with lessons isn't the lesson but the lack of milage afterward. Not implying that for anyone here, because obviously milage isn't the issue. But I remeber having same students year after year and how they would complain about not getting any better. "Well Mr. Smith how many days did you ski last year????" "Um, just the week we spent here last year." There you have it!!!! Brain surgery at it's finest.

I say this, go take a lesson on whatever you want to work on. Pound it to the snow for 6 weeks, then do a follow up lesson to watch your progress. I still do this and have a blast doing it.

 

[CapeSkier]

I stopped taking lessons after I "finished" ski school as a kid in the early 70's. This was back in the old stem-turn days. Not that I don't need them now to polish technique and handle harder terrain better, it's just an old mental block about something that wasn't real pleasant to start with. Then, when my kids came along, it ate up the budget to get them lessons and rentals, and I used my old gear and just skied. I keep promising myself to get out there with a good instructor for a private lesson, and work on old technique, bad habits ingrained over 40 plus years, and making the most of modern skis and boots. I need it, I know. You're never too old to learn.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

My .02---At one point in my life I was full cert PSIA, and a full-time instructor. To this day I still attend 2-3 clinics each year at my home hill with the ski school and truly enjoy/ get alot out of it. Also, my skiing buddy is an ex-PSIA'er so there's always constant critisim going back and forth that really helps us stay as sharpm as we can.

Anyway, the biggest thing wrong with lessons isn't the lesson but the lack of milage afterward. Not implying that for anyone here, because obviously milage isn't the issue. But I remeber having same students year after year and how they would complain about not getting any better. "Well Mr. Smith how many days did you ski last year????" "Um, just the week we spent here last year." There you have it!!!! Brain surgery at it's finest.

I say this, go take a lesson on whatever you want to work on. Pound it to the snow for 6 weeks, then do a follow up lesson to watch your progress. I still do this and have a blast doing it.

Solid advice. I had been skiing for 15 years (from the age of 3) I was good in the bumps, skied fast, loved catching air, spent a winter at Squaw skiing steeps, chutes and dropping cliffs...thought I was the schit, then went to U Maine Farmington for their ski industries program and saw just how much I had to learn. We had classes on hill twice a week where we were brought all the way down to a wedge turn and built back up again using a combination of PSIA and racing techniques. Sophomore year you'd spend more time on hill preparing for PSIA and USSCA exams, also teaching other students in a phys ed class or freshmen in the program...by the time I graduated from UMF I would have skied circles around the 18yr old Squaw Valley hot shot I was 4 years earlier. Then I spent 2 years skiing 100 days a season with other solid skiers. No way would I ski the way I do today if it weren't for all that coaching and mileage. I've also been able to share the technique and knowledge with friends and family...there are some tools in any instructor or race coaches bag of tricks that help the average recreational skier, even "experts" to unlock some of the mystery or drop one seemingly insignificant bad habit that is like their keystone to the holy grail of great technique and advancing to the next level. Sometimes its just a matter of focusing on one thing and getting mileage...I watched my mother improve significantly over 3 seasons of skiing together 10 days or so and a few tips from me...she's 66 and has been skiing since she was 10. You just need to find the right instructor or coach...find out who the best pros are at your local hill and book a lesson...or do one of those "steep camps" out west. If you've never had any coaching or teaching you're not as good as you likely could be.

 

[smootharc]

Sugarbush - Bush Pilot Program

Incredible program at the 'Bush.

Take twenty long time, middle aged ski fiends (at least I'm middle aged....the rest of my pilot pals are less middle aged) and make a season long (all day every Saturday) private group lesson in which you are broken into 3 to 4 groups, each skiing with a stud/studette Pro rider from the Vermont North Pro Ski Team. You cut lift lines, and basically nook and cranny your way all around the resort with incredible free skiers who've made the valley their home for ten, twenty years....or more. You ski on piste, off piste, in Slidebrook. You live, learn, and no matter what you improve.

On any given Saturday, as you gather at the base, a legend of the sport may show up to tag along and teach. Hello, John Egan. There's Dan Egan. Adam DesLauriers. Guru Dean Deacas. I wouldn't be surprised if freakin' Dick Durrance or Alf Engen showed up some Saturday.

You ski, observe, ride lifts and talk technique with the best in the business. The comraderie and friendship is icing on the cake. All for less than $30 bucks a day. Last year was the pilot program for the Bush Pilots. 99.9% return sign-ups for this season.

In my opinion, "lessons" just don't get any better than this.

 

[campgottagopee]

Solid advice. I had been skiing for 15 years (from the age of 3) I was good in the bumps, skied fast, loved catching air, spent a winter at Squaw skiing steeps, chutes and dropping cliffs...thought I was the schit, then went to U Maine Farmington for their ski industries program and saw just how much I had to learn. We had classes on hill twice a week where we were brought all the way down to a wedge turn and built back up again using a combination of PSIA and racing techniques. Sophomore year you'd spend more time on hill preparing for PSIA and USSCA exams, also teaching other students in a phys ed class or freshmen in the program...by the time I graduated from UMF I would have skied circles around the 18yr old Squaw Valley hot shot I was 4 years earlier. Then I spent 2 years skiing 100 days a season with other solid skiers. No way would I ski the way I do today if it weren't for all that coaching and mileage. I've also been able to share the technique and knowledge with friends and family...there are some tools in any instructor or race coaches bag of tricks that help the average recreational skier, even "experts" to unlock some of the mystery or drop one seemingly insignificant bad habit that is like their keystone to the holy grail of great technique and advancing to the next level. Sometimes its just a matter of focusing on one thing and getting mileage...I watched my mother improve significantly over 3 seasons of skiing together 10 days or so and a few tips from me...she's 66 and has been skiing since she was 10. You just need to find the right instructor or coach...find out who the best pros are at your local hill and book a lesson...or do one of those "steep camps" out west. If you've never had any coaching or teaching you're not as good as you likely could be.

That sounds like a awesome program!!!!! I never got into racing as much as I would've liked to. I spent alot of free skiing time with a few race coaches so was able to pick up some tips from them. You can learn alot from a racer. There's more to skiing than just good form!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[YardSaleDad]

Theres an old addage that you can only learn by doing right? Ive never taken a lesson in my life and taught myself how to ride simply by riding with others who were better than me. After a couple days of being ragged on for holding back the group I found myself learning more myself than any instructor couldve taught me with words. Thats all an instructor can do really, is tell you vaguely how to move, you have to figure it out for yourself either way.

If you have never taken a lesson how can you say what an instructor can, and cannot do.

I started skiing in Jan 2005. My kids were already skiing blacks and starting glades & bumps. I had a lot of catching up to do, if I wanted to be able to ski with friends and family. I did ski with people better than me, but I also took lessons. A lot of lessons.I found that certain days and times would result in group lessons of just me, or at most one other person. I came to appreciate the different styles of different instructors. I observed other students and learned from their mistakes. I am now on the blacks, and easing into the glades and bumps. I am certain I would not have progressed as fast as I have if I had skipped the lessons. I am still going to be taking lessons this year. I get an honest appraisal of where I am, what I need to work on for a modest fee.

 

[AdironRider]

Cause taking lessons doesnt just apply to skiing, it applies to all physical sports. I swam competitively for over 13 years of my life, and while Im not saying coaching isnt going to do anything, I didnt get to where I was competively listening to technique tips. (Division 3 nationals in the 100 and 200 free). I got there by busting my ass in the pool 7 hours a day, 250 days a year. An honest appraisal of where you are really doesnt do anything to make you better IM0, it just tells you something you already know. Unless your ego is huge, you know what you can and cannot do on skis realistically, do you really need to shell out cash to the mtn to tell you what you already know? Go out there and rip bumps all day every day this season and I guarantee youll get better than if you were to sit and listen to an instructor tell you what to do.

I look at Bode as a prime example of this. Hes arguably the best skier on the planet right now, and coaches all bitch and moan about his technique. You know how he got to where he is today, by getting out and skiing every day during the winter and pushing himself. Everyone is going to have their own technique, its being able to look at oneself, realizing what you personally need to do to improve, then going out there and doing it. Coaching doesnt take a college degree for a reason, its pretty simple. Coach yourself.

 

[Marc]

I don't take lessons because I've never wanted to take lessons. At least not paying for them.

Two parts of my personality lead to this- 1) I'm cheap and 2) I've always preferred learning on my own rather than seeking the help of others... not once in the process of earning my two engineering degrees through 5 years of college did I seek extra help from the professor or TA during office hours.

A BIG part of the enjoyment I get out of skiing is discovering things on my own, and improving on my own. It's not the destination for me, it's all about the journey. I've been skiing for six winters now and last year I skied Killington quite a bit, and there wasn't one open trail all winter I couldn't ski in control. I'm not a good skier by an stretch of the imagination, but the way I've been going at it the last six years makes me extraordinarily happy... so I'll stick with it.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Cause taking lessons doesnt just apply to skiing, it applies to all physical sports. I swam competitively for over 13 years of my life, and while Im not saying coaching isnt going to do anything, I didnt get to where I was competively listening to technique tips. (Division 3 nationals in the 100 and 200 free). I got there by busting my ass in the pool 7 hours a day, 250 days a year. An honest appraisal of where you are really doesnt do anything to make you better IM0, it just tells you something you already know. Unless your ego is huge, you know what you can and cannot do on skis realistically, do you really need to shell out cash to the mtn to tell you what you already know? Go out there and rip bumps all day every day this season and I guarantee youll get better than if you were to sit and listen to an instructor tell you what to do.

I look at Bode as a prime example of this. Hes arguably the best skier on the planet right now, and coaches all bitch and moan about his technique. You know how he got to where he is today, by getting out and skiing every day during the winter and pushing himself. Everyone is going to have their own technique, its being able to look at oneself, realizing what you personally need to do to improve, then going out there and doing it. Coaching doesnt take a college degree for a reason, its pretty simple. Coach yourself.

Bode, great example...I'm sure he didn't pick up anyting from his coaches at CVA. :roll:

 

[campgottagopee]

Cause taking lessons doesnt just apply to skiing, it applies to all physical sports. I swam competitively for over 13 years of my life, and while Im not saying coaching isnt going to do anything, I didnt get to where I was competively listening to technique tips. (Division 3 nationals in the 100 and 200 free). I got there by busting my ass in the pool 7 hours a day, 250 days a year. An honest appraisal of where you are really doesnt do anything to make you better IM0, it just tells you something you already know. Unless your ego is huge, you know what you can and cannot do on skis realistically, do you really need to shell out cash to the mtn to tell you what you already know? Go out there and rip bumps all day every day this season and I guarantee youll get better than if you were to sit and listen to an instructor tell you what to do.

I look at Bode as a prime example of this. Hes arguably the best skier on the planet right now, and coaches all bitch and moan about his technique. You know how he got to where he is today, by getting out and skiing every day during the winter and pushing himself. Everyone is going to have their own technique, its being able to look at oneself, realizing what you personally need to do to improve, then going out there and doing it. Coaching doesnt take a college degree for a reason, its pretty simple. Coach yourself.

No doubt that your success in the pool came from YOUR hard work, BUT don't you think your coaches/instuctors input helped by accelerating the proccess??? IMO, if your "sitting and listening" to a ski instructor then you need to find a new instuctor.

Bode is a prime example of what we are talking about because he's had more instruction than all AZ'ers put together x 3. Does that mean he does what they all say??? Nope!!!! Does that mean he may have picked up one little thing that may have helped him get to that gate quicker than anyone else alive???? YUP!!!! He knows what works for him, takes all the coaching, teaching w/ a grain of salt then pounds it to the snow!!!!:beer:

 

[jack97]

I look at Bode as a prime example of this. Hes arguably the best skier on the planet right now, and coaches all bitch and moan about his technique. You know how he got to where he is today, by getting out and skiing every day during the winter and pushing himself. Everyone is going to have their own technique, its being able to look at oneself, realizing what you personally need to do to improve, then going out there and doing it. Coaching doesnt take a college degree for a reason, its pretty simple. Coach yourself.

Bode is a prime example of what we are talking about because he's had more instruction than all AZ'ers put together x 3. Does that mean he does what they all say??? Nope!!!! Does that mean he may have picked up one little thing that may have helped him get to that gate quicker than anyone else alive???? YUP!!!! He knows what works for him, takes all the coaching, teaching w/ a grain of salt then pounds it to the snow!!!!:beer:

Go to youtube and search the sportskool series of Miller and McNichols. Miller is fundamentally sound, imo he has great tech but he takes so many chance. In that he sometimes skis out of control which hides his fundamentals.


BTW, I believe in taking lessons, had one two years ago, I'm just selective on what I want to work on.

 

[YardSaleDad]

Unless your ego is huge, you know what you can and cannot do on skis realistically, do you really need to shell out cash to the mtn to tell you what you already know?

This is my point. I do not already know everything. I admit it. Since I am a Dad, and work, I can't live on the slopes. I want those 20+ days of the season to be well spent practicing the right things, at the right time in my progression.

 

[campgottagopee]

Go to youtube and search the sportskool series of Miller and McNichols. Miller is fundamentally sound, imo he has great tech but he takes so many chance. In that he sometimes skis out of control which hides his fundamentals.


BTW, I believe in taking lessons, had one two years ago, I'm just selective on what I want to work on.

Completely agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!