Why people don't take lessons

[snowmonster]

I always say to myself at the beginning of the season that I need to take at least one lesson -- then I don't because I can't be bothered to stop skiing. It's a bad habit.

Aside from three lessons I took to get into the sport, I only took one other lesson because it came free with my A41. Everybody told me that provate lessons were better than group but the cost always made me look elsewhere.

Anyway, last year, I got all these skiing books (All Mountain Skier, Breakthrough on the New Skis and DePiro's book on bumps) and substituted them for lessons. I made an effort to read up then do the drills on the hill. I think it worked.

 

[kingslug]

The best and cheapest lessons I have ever taken where out west. JH has a great deal for about $85.00 for the day. It's a group lesson but you explore the whole mountain. They even found us some pow when we thought there was none around. I always take 2 to 3 lessons a year now, mostly moguls. This year I think a good powder one is in order.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

A post this morning had me thinking...why don't people take more lessons? Is it because of the cost? Is it because they think that they ski well enough that they are better than most of the available instructors and don't feel that they need lessons? Is it out of fear of criticism, no matter how constructive?

I try to make it a goal to get one lesson in a season. I am still at the level where I have a lot to improve, but I'd imagine that even if I was at a comparable skill level to many instructors, it would still help to get some analysis and coaching on occasion.

For me I don't take lessons for a number of reasons...I don't like be criticized, being told what to do, am stubborn, and do thing my way. But I've gotten some great pointers over the years from friends and continue to progress. I used to take golf lessons and they were so frustrating but I liked golf so I just learned by doing..and I'm no longer a hacker. For many people they only ski like 5-6 days a year and are already buying lift tickets, rentals, and food and don't want to spend the money for a lesson. Then there's the time factor..lessons can involve a good bit of standing around and lower level group lessons always have that slow-learner who holds up the entire group.

I had a first timers lesson with my Dad when I was 9 and went home after the lesson when I wanted to free-ski..then 2 years later a first timers lesson with school and afterwards had dinner and had time for 3 runs on Vista-Easy out at Blue. After that I didn't want my precious on-slope time tied up in lessons. Skiing to me was always about freedom..going where you want..so I took one more beginner lesson and our group was going down Burma and I was fed up with the slow pace so I just skied off to the bottom with a friend and we lapped the lesson a few times..haha..ahhh freedom..release the shackles..lol

 

[riverc0il]

My fundamentals come from race training. I doubt I would have reached the proficiency I have reached without some sort of formalized training. I am just glad I got that training in college through a race program as I don't know if I would have bothered with lessons for many of the reasons listed above. Race training got me the fundamentals of good skiing technique, but I took it from there on everything non-groomed after I had mastered the fundamentals.

I think ski areas could do a better job with their snow sports learning programs. They are not attractive to the upper level intermediate and above levels, especially adults. In their place, I would recommend a good week long technique camp with a low instructor to skier ratio for maximizing one on one help. That said, nothing wrong with learning in groups, that is how I got schooled in racing.

 

[Sky]

I fear the criticism (to be honest)...but I know I need improvement.

Last year I bought a 5-pack of group lessons @ Wachusett. They are good for two seasons.

NOBODY (above level 5) signs up for group lessons...so I end up with five private lessons over two seasons for $70.

I've done this at Wa before and I usually have a great time with the instructor...usually we go "over" the allotted time..."one more run".

I always tip well.

Last year's lesson really put me into an odd-feeling body position. It felt "exagerated"...apparently I had picked up a bad habit over the previous two years and it was really holding me back.

So after the lesson I stuck with the drills and kept working them when I free-skied for the rest of the season. Big difference.

 

[KevinF]

I take bunches of lessons each year, but they fall into two categories. There's the EpicSki Academy programs, which is so far removed from any traditional ski-school program that comparing the two is pointless. But... I've come away from my various ESA experiences with a specific technical skill that I've wanted to improve upon -- i.e., moving with my skis better, driving the inside leg more, getting off the boot cuffs, turning is a "go" thought, finding neutral between turns, etc. Those are my goals; they sound boring as hell, and I think it's safe to say that 99% of the skiing public would have no idea what I'm talking about.

But each time I master (ok, get better...) at some boring-sound skill -- my bump / powder / tree / ice-holding-prowess jumps a major notch.

Anyway, the point being... When I take a "normal" ski-school lesson (maybe two or three times a year) -- I ask them their opinion on whatever skill I'm working on. They've generally known what I've been talking about, and I'll argue with them if need be about their interpretation of skiing mechanics vs. what I learned at ESA. Their opinion sometimes differs, but it gives me some other aspect to play with with regards to whatever skill I've been trying to develop. I'll play with their ideas, the ESA ideas, figure out what I like, what I don't like, and take it from there.

 

[Mr MRG]

Moguls moguls moguls. Mogul skiers are about as common as Tab drinkers nowadays

Not at Mad River Glen my friend! Here you will find bump skiers galore.
Terrific thread!
The National Ski Areas Assn, just did a survey and study on this topic with very interesting results.

Mogul lessons are one of the biggest sellers in our ski school. I highly recommend taking a ski school clinic here or at many other ski areas. This will be my 40th year of skiing (thanks Dad!) and am a proficient bump skier. I take the time to ski with some of our instructors every year and always feel like I am improving. Good mogul technique makes skiing moguls significantly easier on your body. One is never too good to take a lesson and good instructors don't make a clinic feel like a chore. Skiers should ask around for recommendations on good instructors at your particular mountain.

 

[billski]

I like lessons. What I don't like is having to buy a lift ticket too. The lift ticket should be pro-rated to remove the time spent in the lesson. A 2-hour lesson is like stealing 2 hours from my lift ticket. So if my lift ticket is good for 8 hours, they should charge me 3/4 price for the lift ticket.

What is "sad but true" is that after you bought your day ticket, the mountain finance manager would rather have you sit in the lodge eating $4 cookies than on the lift. Every minute spent on the slope is time away from other revenue-generating activities like wasting time getting rentals, eating, drinking, shopping. To think, I buy a lift ticket then I spend so much of that time NOT skiing/boarding! But I guess you can go home in your Land Rover and tell everyone about all the Black Diamonds you skied. And nobody will know how bad you really are, even if you do need three months of remedial lessons.
Lemme see, where did I put my Bogner coat????

 

[RISkier]

I started skiing at an advanced age and this will be my 6th year. Missed most of year 2 with an injury. I suck but I suck a lot less because of the lessons I've taken. And I plan to suck a lot less by the end of this year. A couple of comments on lessons. The cost of lessons is a very real barrier and there may not be much payoff, especially for someone who's just going to ski a few days a year. Harvey Penick once said something to the effect that golf lessons weren't to make practice unneeded, they were to make practice effective. Ski lessons without mileage won't add up to much. After you reach a certain level it becomes very clear that "all ski instructors are not created equal." I don't really relate to the "I don't want to be criticized" theme. I've never had a ski instructor, not even the bad ones, be demeaning. It's always been about learning new movements and unlearning bad habits. If your not at least willing to recognize your weaknesses and limitations, how can you grow -- and that extends to anything your trying to accomplish. In most of our lessons, especially the best lessons, we've done a lot of skiing. I realize that in larger group lessons, espeically when there are mixed abililities, there can be quite a bit of standing around and waiting. But in general, our best lessons have been mostly skiing with relatively brief interludes for verbal instruction or demonstration of techniques. Once you reach a certain level progress tends to be incremental, the real breakthrough moments that make you feel like the money you spent on the lesson are few and far between. I also think that once you reach a certain level it helps to find a really good instructor that you trust, someone you feel comfortable working with for a while, and someone who knows your movement patterns.

 

[mister moose]

The wrong instructor, or being placed in the wrong group will make you think you wasted your money.

The right instructor will fire nuerons you didn't know existed.

Unfortunately, you don't know what you are going to get most of the time. That's why people look for an instructor they click with, and then request them.

Those who say I don't want to work on the basics, I want to ski bumps have it wrong. The bumps will bring your flaws out and amplify them. Your entire skiing ability improves with a better foundation.

You cannot advance in large jumps. You advance in baby steps. A good lesson is learning one thing to work on, and then as someone said, go skiing and work on it. A lot.

The best thing for my skiing ever was a combination of 100 day seasons, drilling the basics, and frequent clinics with many different instructors.

 

[Rushski]

When I was young and first started, I wanted to ski and not have more teaching. Learned initially with my best friend who had only been a few times, then a day or two w/my oldest bro who showed me a lot.

Late 80s took ski instructor classes at massively huge Nashoba and ended up the second week blowing it off and just skiing. Did that two concurrent years and did get something out of it but not much. Of course going back to the basics at that point was pretty tough.

That being said, a tuneup, maybe a mogul class to get back to being more comfortable there. Think classes are a smart move, but like anything else there are good teachers and bad teachers, but being taught (even badly) is usually better than not...

 

[dmc]

Unless it's something super specialized - like the JH Steep and Deep camp - I'm not interested...

 

[KevinF]

Unless it's something super specialized - like the JH Steep and Deep camp - I'm not interested...

I've known a number of people who have attended a variety of these types of camps. The JH Steep & Deep, the Straightline Adventure Camps (Gordy Pfeiffer, I think), etc. They've all come back saying the same thing -- you spend more time on groomers then you'd like to believe.

Sure, you'll spend some significant time in "fun terrain". But the coaches at these things are plenty good enough to see your technique flaws on any terrain. And there's no point in trying to teach you "new moves" when there's the slightest hint of fear or trepedation in your mind. So it's to the groomers to practice.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Personally, I have only taken a few lessons. Mostly, I get behind a better skiier and emulate them as best I can. I also listen while on the lifts to the instructors teaching and we try their tips all the time (poaching a lesson).

I'll admit to being cash strapped, but also, here is how it goes for lessons: Chairs open at 8AM. Meet for lessons at 8:30. (Can I get a run in by that time and not be late???) Lesson starts at 9 AM. Lesson is slow moving as it is a group. Lesson ends in time for lunch or there abouts. (Where is all the corduroy, and now the steeps are all scraped off down to ice or boilerplate). By noon, if I got in a run before the lesson, I now have 3 trips down the mountain. And now, there are tons of people and long lines. And I paid how much for the lift ticket and the lesson. One real expensive day, and I didn't get many runs in.

Did I mention that I like to be going downhill??????

Besides, I still find myself having to pay attention to the last tips I got on the last lesson (poached or paid for). Last year, I got boots that greatly improved my skiing, and just learning how much I could do in good fitting boots was awesome. This year it's new skiis, so I'll be learning all over again.

And I'm a gonna be going down the trails as much as I can!

I agree with all your points because I'm a vert whore...I'm in Go Go Go mood when skiing..especially the first hour or two.

Time to play some golf in the 42 degree temperatures..lol..