Wildcat on the block: Wildcat Sold to Peaks Resorts

[Edd]

Deductive reasoning would suggest that the sale had to do with the price more than the business model.....The last time I was there, I actually made an argument to my buddy that the salvage value of the lifts might have been worth more than the business itself.

Bingo. This has been suggested to me as well. Makes you wonder.

 

[EPB]

The Attitash vibe at the show was really bad.
In essence, they see no need to discount.

I also noticed that Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat are not participating in the skiNH January learn to ski program.

As soon as a resort starts using the word "product" to describe skiing and boarding, you know you're in the corporate black hole of death.

Locals to the Mount Washington Valley probably wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that. The local perception of Peak management is that they really don't care what anybody has to say about their "product" and that they will do whatever they think is necessary to make the most money.

While this outlook does not give a perfect representation of Peak management, I certainly see where locals are coming from. Peak Management has severed many ties to locals, die hards, and bargain hunters alike during their time with Attitash because they don't seem to see the value in it..... Let's not forget the discussions on this board about how valuable it is to have Wildcat and Attitash on the same ticklet/pass. Peak knew that they were creating something valuable when they decided to by Wildcat, and they have removed many of their discounts to price their tickets accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly happy with Peak's handling of Wildcat either. All of the season pass combination work at Attitash and Wildcat except for the college pass.. I have tried to pry an answer from Peak resorts on a number of occasions, and have been underwhelmed by the answer that I was given.

PS My favorite bad vibe moment I ever got was the first year that Stowe's single day ticket price eclipsed $80. I asked them how much a day ticket cost, and they immediately tried to steer the conversation toward staying for multiple days to lower the average ticket cost per day. After some persistence, the guy gave up and admitted that the ticket was to cost something in the $80 range.

 

[deadheadskier]

Locals to the Mount Washington Valley probably wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that. The local perception of Peak management is that they really don't care what anybody has to say about their "product" and that they will do whatever they think is necessary to make the most money.

While this outlook does not give a perfect representation of Peak management, I certainly see where locals are coming from. Peak Management has severed many ties to locals, die hards, and bargain hunters alike during their time with Attitash because they don't seem to see the value in it..... Let's not forget the discussions on this board about how valuable it is to have Wildcat and Attitash on the same ticklet/pass. Peak knew that they were creating something valuable when they decided to by Wildcat, and they have removed many of their discounts to price their tickets accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly happy with Peak's handling of Wildcat either. All of the season pass combination work at Attitash and Wildcat except for the college pass.. I have tried to pry an answer from Peak resorts on a number of occasions, and have been underwhelmed by the answer that I was given.

PS My favorite bad vibe moment I ever got was the first year that Stowe's single day ticket price eclipsed $80. I asked them how much a day ticket cost, and they immediately tried to steer the conversation toward staying for multiple days to lower the average ticket cost per day. After some persistence, the guy gave up and admitted that the ticket was to cost something in the $80 range.

Funny you bring up Stowe in your comments. I was going to mention that Stowe is an area that has very few discounts available outside of ski clubs. The mountain is without question the most expensive in the east. However, they have maintained a solid image with locals over the years by giving back to those in the community that contribute to the experience of their skiers.

They offer:

- steeply discounted passes to anyone working for a business belonging the Stowe Area Association (Chamber of Commerce), which when I lived up there was pretty much everywhere. I believe last year the mid-week black out pass was $350.

- My last winter in VT, 04-05, the first Thursday of every month was an industry day. If you showed up with a recent pay stub from any Vermont hotel, restaurant or other travel and tourism related business you could ski for free.

- Full time employees get full season passes for themselves, spouses and children.

- Part time employees get full season passes if they work 16 hours a week or more.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I'm not so sure of that corporate death sentence. As someone whose seen 1st hand now the last 3 full seasons what Peak Resorts "product" at Mount Snow has been, i'm completely satisfied with it (and I know i'm not alone). Does Peak in general get rid of a bunch of the discounts? Yes Does Peak focus primarily on the snow product instead of real estate/etc - yes. Does Peak also do their changes/upgrades and keep a great deal of the existing pre Peak staff in place - yes. So things need to he given a fair chance to see what Peak can do, since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
T

The problem with this analogy is that Mt. Snow was already about as "corporate" as you could get under ASC. Wildcat is at the opposite end of the spectrum so the changes that Peak will be implementing will be pretty dramatic as compared to what Mt. Snow skiers saw.

 

[thetrailboss]

So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and :

Would folks rather have an open Wildcat under Peaks with some deals scaled back, or have it on NELSAP?

Discuss.

 

[St. Bear]

So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and :

Would folks rather have an open Wildcat under Peaks with some deals scaled back, or have it on NELSAP?

Discuss.

Was that really an option?

 

[deadheadskier]

Attitash and Wildcat have both been hinting about a new deal they're unveiling Thursday. So, wel'll see what that brings.
.

http://www.skiwildcat.com/wilddeals.html

This appears to be the deal:

Buy a verticle value card for $79, get 50% off non-holiday weekdays, 25% non-holiday weekends and 10% off holiday tickets.

Unless you're able to ski there midweek several times during the season, this isn't a deal worth getting excited about at all IMO.

 

[deadheadskier]

So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and :

Would folks rather have an open Wildcat under Peaks with some deals scaled back, or have it on NELSAP?

Discuss.

Was that really an option?

If it was a potential reality, then yes, I'd rather see Peaks buy it. I have that opinion regardless of whether or not I will be a customer of theirs. I don't like seeing any area close, especially a true classic like Wildcat.

 

[riverc0il]

http://www.skiwildcat.com/wilddeals.html

This appears to be the deal:

Buy a verticle value card for $79, get 50% off non-holiday weekdays, 25% non-holiday weekends and 10% off holiday tickets.

Unless you're able to ski there midweek several times during the season, this isn't a deal worth getting excited about at all IMO.

uke:

:lol:

On the plus side, if you have two X chromosomes or have reached half a century in age, the Corporate Kitty still has the same Tuesday and Thursday deals, respectfully, that they used to.

Interesting observation from EPB in that with a combo of Attitash and Wildcat, Peaks has really locked up the best skiing options in the Mount Washington Valley. There is still Cranmore. And folks can still drive up the road to BW or up and over to SR or Abrams. But the best close by local hills for MWV residents are no longer in competition.

 

[thetrailboss]

Was that really an option?

Well, from what I understand, Wildcat was on the market for a looooonnnnnggggg time and the family/entity that owned it was really getting tired of running it and wanted to get out. So let's say no buyer came along. What then?

In reality though, you're right to some extent because Wildcat has a lot going for it. Turns out that from what I have been reading and hearing Peaks was at the right place and the right time. Wildcat is no small mountain. It has good vert and a good location. Just no potential for real estate development.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

I know fed and state lands can be tough if not impossible to develope on, but would it be possible that Wildcat/Peaks could be able to add a hotel or two? I would guess that a couple hundred hotel rooms wouldn't really leave a huge footprint in the MWV.

 

[eatskisleep]

What's the deal with student discounts for day passes? I haven't seen anything mentioned... they used to get teen rates...

worst come to worst, I'll just get up at 5am and skin up, rip up TB and then starting heading back up again before the lift starts turning... and of course we always have across the street

 

[eatskisleep]

I know fed and state lands can be tough if not impossible to develope on, but would it be possible that Wildcat/Peaks could be able to add a hotel or two? I would guess that a couple hundred hotel rooms wouldn't really leave a huge footprint in the MWV.

This would ruin Wildcat IMHO.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

This would ruin Wildcat IMHO.

Not that I care whether something like this were to occur, and I doubt it would. I also doubt Peaks bought the place thinking this is something they could do, but why would a hotel ruin Wildcat?

 

[deadheadskier]

uke:

:lol:

On the plus side, if you have two X chromosomes or have reached half a century in age, the Corporate Kitty still has the same Tuesday and Thursday deals, respectfully, that they used to.

.

when I read about this 'new deal', I kind of chuckled that I as a consumer can get a better single day usage deal from Killington of all places than I can at Wildcat. I bought a K55 ticket to use this year. If Wildcat offered something like it for $45, I'd buy right now. The Sunday Liftopia deals were routinely in the $34-$49 range depending on the time of year.

maybe I can drag my wife up to the outlets on a Tuesday and have her wear my jacket up to the ticket window in the morning before she goes shopping. :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

This would ruin Wildcat IMHO.

I've often thought a couple hundred room hotel would be great for that business. I don't see how it would ruin it. Picture a hotel about 4 times the size of the base lodge tucked over off to the side down below the Tomcat lift.

Would it really make that much of a difference to the place?

 

[riverc0il]

I don't see anything wrong with a small hotel at the bottom of Wildcat. It can be done right. Mittersill at is a very tasteful example, the hotel is slopeside even. Heck, rates could potentially even be more competitive than the crazy AMC Lodging Company and their Joe Dodge Lodge and Highland center uke:

I don't see how they could develop real estate and sell condos or anything. But I can't see anything wrong with a hotel on the parking lot side of the brook. Would be super cool if they included a ski hostel for the dirt cheap skiers. Doubt they would do that... but I am just saying there are ways they could build a hotel and make it cool for the Cat and its culture. We are not talking about building a missile silo or anything, here.

 

[threecy]

Interesting observation from EPB in that with a combo of Attitash and Wildcat, Peaks has really locked up the best skiing options in the Mount Washington Valley. There is still Cranmore. And folks can still drive up the road to BW or up and over to SR or Abrams. But the best close by local hills for MWV residents are no longer in competition.

Black Mountain is expecting to see an increase in local skier visits due to the merger.

 

[tcharron]

I'm not so sure of that corporate death sentence. As someone whose seen 1st hand now the last 3 full seasons what Peak Resorts "product" at Mount Snow has been, i'm completely satisfied with it (and I know i'm not alone). Does Peak in general get rid of a bunch of the discounts? Yes Does Peak focus primarily on the snow product instead of real estate/etc - yes. Does Peak also do their changes/upgrades and keep a great deal of the existing pre Peak staff in place - yes. So things need to he given a fair chance to see what Peak can do, since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
T

Peak Resorts product at Mt Snow != product at the other mountains.

 

[Smellytele]

Black Mountain is expecting to see an increase in local skier visits due to the merger.

+1