Will high price of gas keep skiers home?

[andyzee]

I've got a house full of boys and we have never gone through 20 gallons of milk in an afternoon.

That may be true, but have you had them run 400 miles? Yeah, I didn't think so, I'm sure they would easily go through the 20 gallons then.:razz:

 

[riverc0il]

We have a condo in the MRV so it is essential that we have 4WD or AWD.

with all due respect, so long as you are driving on paved roads in new england (yes, even in ski country), 4WD and AWD are definitely not essential. a good set of snow tires will get you any where you need to go up here in 2WD. i can understand needing a big vehicle for four kids and equipment, but the idea that you need AWD to get to ski areas and drive around in VT is not correct.

 

[thetrailboss]

A gallon of gas is still cheaper than a gallon of milk. Something's out of whack there...

Wow...where are you buying milk? Or where are you buying gas? :lol: We pay $1.99 a gallon now for 2% and it is normally $2.49. Gas is more than milk up here!

 

[thetrailboss]

as it is, i try not to drive to the mountains without a full car. maybe there will be renewed interest in doing bus trips. i wish the train out of penn station to killington was more economical.

I've heard that the Amtrak Downeaster from Portland to Boston has seen an increase in passengers. Definitely good news!

 

[madskier6]

with all due respect, so long as you are driving on paved roads in new england (yes, even in ski country), 4WD and AWD are definitely not essential. a good set of snow tires will get you any where you need to go up here in 2WD. i can understand needing a big vehicle for four kids and equipment, but the idea that you need AWD to get to ski areas and drive around in VT is not correct.

You're actually right, Riv. I stand corrected. I overstated the need.

I guess my point was that since I'm buying a new vehicle and we ski so much, I would prefer to have an AWD or 4WD vehicle. We have had some trouble climbing some of the mountain roads after a snow storm. You are right, though that it is not essential. My wife and I just prefer it for driving 3 hours on a Friday night through snow storms and up steep mountain roads.

 

[thetrailboss]

You're actually right, Riv. I stand corrected. I overstated the need.

I guess my point was that since I'm buying a new vehicle and we ski so much, I would prefer to have an AWD or 4WD vehicle. We have had some trouble climbing some of the mountain roads after a snow storm. You are right, though that it is not essential. My wife and I just prefer it for driving 3 hours on a Friday night through snow storms and up steep mountain roads.

And to echo this...you won't believe:

(a) Which type of vehicles I see off the side of the INTERSTATE after some snow flurries, and
(b) Where those vehicles are from :wink:

I used to drive from my alma mater over App Gap to SB/MRG at least once or twice a week for skiing. I had a '97 Saturn Sedan with good snow tires and only had trouble once. Just gotta know how to drive the stuff and, like hiking, know when NOT to go :wink:

 

[TwinTips21]

Lets not fool ourselves here, a four wheel drive or all wheel drive car/suv is deifintely better and prefferable in the snow. Cars with snowtires are pretty good but not the best. The key thing is to not think you're invcincible in a 4wd car (like almost everyone except me thinks). Therefore, I think driving techniques are what really helps in the snow.

 

[TwinTips21]

And to add to part b- Conn,Ma,NY,NJ
All extremely wealthy people who think because they paid 50,000 for a car and get 2 mpg, its impossible to slide in the snow. Although this may sound rude (which it most certainly is), I'm sometimes happy to see poeple of this type off the road in a snow bank (as long as everyone is ok medically).

 

[thetrailboss]

The key thing is to not think you're invcincible in a 4wd car (like almost everyone except me thinks). Therefore, I think driving techniques are what really helps in the snow.

BINGO! You got it.

How are you doing, TwinTips? How are things at Ascutney?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

BINGO! You got it.

I also agree 100%. If your driving 40 mph, you slide off the road and the trooper gives you a ticket for "driving too fast for conditions" cause that's exactly what you did.

On the needing a 4WD it obviously is not essential but it sure is nice to have. Plenty of people seem to get around just fine without it but it does make a diference. Especially getting up the sugarbush access rd, those first two steep sections, when a couple of buses are stuck and you have to go around them.

I only use it only when necessary cause a Vermont oldtimer once told me many years ago.."once you get stuck in 4wd, your stuck".

 

[kbroderick]

re: driving in the snow, the best thing I ever did was go to a few ice racing sessions in Mallet's Bay with the SCCV. It's a great environment to work on techniques where the consequences of screwing up are likely to be a lot lower, plus the other (pronounced "better") drivers there are usually willing to offer tips for newbies. High-performance driving school would probably be a good option, as well, but ice racing is a lot cheaper.

re: AWD or 4WD...it can be nice to have, but paying attention and using appropriate technique will work most of the time. I have driven by stuck 4WDs in my 91 GTi, albeit while spinning furiously and moving slowly. Tires do matter, though; the one time I've been stuck in the past couple of years was one of the snowstorms last October prior to when I reinstalled my snow tires.

 

[kbroderick]

oh, and regarding the original topic...I think it will have an impact, but more due to reduced disposable income than due solely to the increased cost of skiing. Joe Skier probably isn't going to scratch a weekend trip with his wife and 2.5 statistically normal kids because of an additional $30 in gas (given that $30 is going to be a pretty small amount of the total cost), but he may scratch one of his three planned weekend trips because he and his wife have put $40 a week more into their gas tanks over the last x months. (Dollar figures are completely made up, of course, as I'm not bothering to research the actual increase in gas prices.)

Personally, it has impacting my thinking about skiing--I figure that I probably spent as much in gas as I did for my lift ticket at Sugarbush on the 29th--but it hasn't impacted my actual skiing yet. (Well, I might have gone hiking at Stowe once or twice earlier this month if gas was cheaper and the weather was better.)

 

[riverc0il]

Lets not fool ourselves here, a four wheel drive or all wheel drive car/suv is deifintely better and prefferable in the snow. Cars with snowtires are pretty good but not the best. The key thing is to not think you're invcincible in a 4wd car (like almost everyone except me thinks). Therefore, I think driving techniques are what really helps in the snow.

i would take a light weight saturn with snow tires over an AWD vehicle without snow tires any day. of course, AWD with snow tires is going to better than 2WD with snow tires, but that is not what i stated. i was simply making the observation that a lot of people think AWD will help them in snow when a simple set of good snow tires would on any vehicle would be just as good if not better. being smart about driving is applicable to all vehicle.. one should never rely on AWD or snow tires to get through bad driving conditions. if anyone thinks they need AWD to get to ski areas, they are kidding themselves. big time. before moving up here, i never even had snow tires on my light weight saturn sedan.

 

[kingslug]

It won't affect me even though we have a Tahoe. I'm not going to ski less because of gas prices or anything else for that matter. It's one of the few things I really like to do. When the lease is up we prolly will get something a little smaller. The problem is that our house near Belleayre is up a very steep driveway. We have even gotten stuck in a Blazer, and a Jeep. But hey if things get really tragic, I'll just get a camel.

 

[ALLSKIING]

i would take a light weight saturn with snow tires over an AWD vehicle without snow tires any day. of course, AWD with snow tires is going to better than 2WD with snow tires, but that is not what i stated. i was simply making the observation that a lot of people think AWD will help them in snow when a simple set of good snow tires would on any vehicle would be just as good if not better. being smart about driving is applicable to all vehicle.. one should never rely on AWD or snow tires to get through bad driving conditions. if anyone thinks they need AWD to get to ski areas, they are kidding themselves. big time. before moving up here, i never even had snow tires on my light weight saturn sedan.

The only problem with a 2WD or AWD car is the ground clearance. With a big dump the lower ground clearance and smaller wheels on a car make it real hard to drive pushing through all that snow.

 

[madskier6]

Especially getting up the sugarbush access rd, those first two steep sections, when a couple of buses are stuck and you have to go around them.

Exactly. My condo is at the base of the SB Access Road and in the morning I have to pull out of the driveway and go right up one of the steepest sections immediately. A couple of times in my current vehicle, I had to go all the way down to the bottom of the road to get up enough speed to make the hill. Not a big deal but I'd rather have 4WD than not, especially since I have to buy a new car anyway.

I completely agree that it's all a question of how you use your 4WD, not just the fact that you have it. I can't stand the people that blow by me on the Interstate in SUVs going way too fast in snowy conditions because they think they're invincible.

I will not change my careful driving habits once I have 4WD but it will make my wife and I feel better while driving with my children in snowy conditions.

 

[kbroderick]

The only problem with a 2WD or AWD car is the ground clearance. With a big dump the lower ground clearance and smaller wheels on a car make it real hard to drive pushing through all that snow.

That makes me wish I had photos from my car being plowed in this winter...I did a little digging and then managed to push my way through a pretty decent amount of snow. Of course, it was only for a short amount of time until I hit the (mostly) plowed portion of the lot and the plowed road. My car is not exactly of the high-clearance variety:

(Granted, that was almost three years ago and with summer tires on, but if you look at the grass-to-airdam clearance, there's not a lot there.)

I believe that the Outback actually has comparable ground clearance to a lot of SUVs...I know that was a selling point of the original ones (7.4" on the originals, 8.4"+ on the 05s according to http://www.cars101.com/outback.html). If I had the cash for a new vehicle, I'd be looking at Audi or Subaru, I think...AWD would be rather nice to have given that I live in a town that gets it's share of snow. If money wasn't an object, I might also consider a Toureg...but one Toureg is equivalent to an awful lot of ski trips. On the other hand, if I had to go out and buy a car this summer (not out of the realm of possibility, but I hope not...*knocks on wood*), I'd probably be looking at lightweight fwd cars (Saturn, VW, Honduh, etc).

 

[maplevalleymaster]

This will not effect me at all. I love skiing way too much.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Exactly. My condo is at the base of the SB Access Road and in the morning I have to pull out of the driveway and go right up one of the steepest sections immediately. A couple of times in my current vehicle, I had to go all the way down to the bottom of the road to get up enough speed to make the hill. Not a big deal but I'd rather have 4WD than not, especially since I have to buy a new car anyway.

I completely agree that it's all a question of how you use your 4WD, not just the fact that you have it. I can't stand the people that blow by me on the Interstate in SUVs going way too fast in snowy conditions because they think they're invincible.

I will not change my careful driving habits once I have 4WD but it will make my wife and I feel better while driving with my children in snowy conditions.

If your taking about Timberline or Xmas Tree I can't tell you how many times I was heading to work, someone pulls out onto the icy SAR, from Timberline is especially hard, assumed it was a fellow Sugarbusher and barely make it up fish tailing all the way at 5mgh. They get up some speed as you pass the Country Flair(Bass) restaurant then they do the same thing on the next steep pitch. I think if you have good studded snowtires people with FWD you can do fine most of the time but having 4wd is one less hassle you have to worry about.

 

[madskier6]

If your taking about Timberline or Xmas Tree I can't tell you how many times I was heading to work, someone pulls out onto the icy SAR, from Timberline is especially hard.

Timberline it is! So you know what I'm talking about. As you said, having 4WD will be one less thing to worry about although I realize it won't solve all slick driving issues.