Will high price of gas keep skiers home?

[hammer]

I believe that the Outback actually has comparable ground clearance to a lot of SUVs...

They sure do...a few years ago, I accidentally went over a log with my Outback and only did real minor damage to the undercarriage.

Biggest problem I have is the gas mileage and performance...the car definitely gets out of its own way, but it's not super quick, and most of the time I'm lucky if I get 22 - 23 MPG out of it.

I'm still sold on the AWD, though. Yes, I could do with a 2WD vehicle and snow tires (and may need to on my next car), but for now I'd rather not bother with having to swap out tires.

The car I had before it was an Acura Integra...real nice sporty car, but I did get it stuck in snow a few times.

 

[Marc]

To answer the original question of the thread... well, I can only speak for myself (and Nate) and the answer for us is, no. There is not a lot that can keep us from skiing, and paying 30% more for gas certainly isn't going to be one of them.

To venture in to the discussion regarding 2WD and 4WD vehicles- I was never part of the original debate, nor do I particularly wish to join now, so here are some observations of mine on the issue. Let me qualify my observations by stating they're based on experience over the last four winters driving in snow and ice conditions in the following:

FWD Grand Prix with all season Good Years
FWD Grand Prix with Blizzaks
FWD Integra with Kumho summer rubber
4WD Explorer with stock rubber
AWD S4 with Dunlop Wintersport M3's
RWD 1971 Mack CF 5 speed fire truck
RWD 2005 American LaFrance slush box fire truck

1) Most people pay far too little attention to the type of tire they have when it comes to winter driving, and for some reason unbeknownst to me, assume all tires are equal.

2) Traction control in FWD cars makes a difference starting from a stop.

3) Hard summer rubber sucks no matter how much snow is on the road and no matter how many driving wheels you have.

4) There were at least two occasions this year I would not have made it home from work without AWD.

5) FWD with aggressive snow tires performs close to the level of AWD with performance winter tires in snow, yet is still a comprimise in deep snow, but more importantly is a BIG comprimise in dry pavement handling.

6) You have a greater chance of high grounding a FWD vehicle even with snow tires than you do an AWD vehicle, especially since your drive wheels, when in forward motion, will be the first set to high ground.

7) I have driven through snow in sustained distances over twice the depth of my ground clearance (probably around 16") and have driven through plow banks of nearly two feet without the aid of momentum.

8 ) If more ground clearance is needed than what was stated in 7) then there is a good chance you are driving over terrain that I wouldn't venutre over with the lower ground clearance without snow cover. I have yet to find a necessity for the extra gound clearance in the snow, and would never want to comprimise the handling on dry of a vehicle with a high center of gravity and a solid rear axle.

9) AWD, especially combined with a stick, a powerful engine and an AWD system capable of inducing oversteer, and a bit of hand e-brake, is far more fun in snow than just about any other vehicle.

In conclusion, I will gladly pay again and again for the piece of mind, but more importantly, the added safety of an AWD vehicle for travel in the snow.

 

[Ski Diva]

Most people pay far too little attention to the type of tire they have when it comes to winter driving, and for some reason unbeknownst to me, assume all tires are equal.

This is so, so, so true. You can have a good car and if it has lousy tires, forget it. My '05 Subaru Outback came with these awful Bridgestone Potenza tires that had me sliding all over the snow -- even WITH my 4WD. I ended up getting rid of them and got some Continental Conti Extreme Contacts. What a difference!!!!!

 

[andyzee]

This is so, so, so true. You can have a good car and if it has lousy tires, forget it. My '05 Subaru Outback came with these awful Bridgestone Potenza tires that had me sliding all over the snow -- even WITH my 4WD. I ended up getting rid of them and got some Continental Conti Extreme Contacts. What a difference!!!!!

Agree, my 4Runner came with Goodyear Wranglers, that I was always fearful driving in the snow with. I lost control a number of times when there was a light coat of packed snow. I purchased a set of Bridgestone Revo all terrains, and these things are great in the snow. However, as was mentioned, don't ever get over confident when driving in bad conditions.

 

[Sky]

1) Most people pay far too little attention to the type of tire they have when it comes to winter driving, and for some reason unbeknownst to me, assume all tires are equal.

In conclusion, I will gladly pay again and again for the piece of mind, but more importantly, the added safety of an AWD vehicle for travel in the snow.

re: 1) I paid far out the arse for m wife's snow tires...V-Redestein (a Dutch tire). When we needed snow tires, no one had tires to fit her car...except Direct Tire. Apparently these tires are for "high-end" cars...and by the price, I'd imagine so. HOWEVER...they are fabulous in the snow and Mrs Sky hates to take them off inthe spring (and I refuse to pay out the arse for summer V-R's). I've driven her car in the snow (Sebring convertible (FWD)). Those tires are sticky.

A ski pal owns a tire dealership. He swears by Cooper tires. He drives to Cannon once a week all season long.

I have a pal with a 80's Firebird. He had Blizzaks and the car handled snow great.

Tires are the wrong thing to go cheap on.

re: 4WD/AWD...It is better to have and not need, than to need and not have. As mentioned elsewhere...4WD/AWD makes you "go"....doesn't affect the "stop" side of the equation. Driver beware.

 

[Marc]

I'm quite shocked you couldn't find a tire size for a car like a Sebring, Sky. Of all the cars I think of with rare tire sizes, a Sebring is down near the bottom of the list. Did you try TireRack?

I would think even the size on my S4 (225/45 17) would be more difficult to find than a Sebring.

 

[Marc]

Of course, Sky, when you buy snow tires makes a big difference too. If you buy them in November, you're likely to have a hard time coming up with common tire sizes I suppose. I know TireRack sells out of common sizes every year.

Is that the issue you ran into?

 

[Sky]

Of course, Sky, when you buy snow tires makes a big difference too.
Is that the issue you ran into?

Absolutely. I tried Firestone, Goodyear and maybe one other place...then called Direct Tire. I needed the tires THAT day (snow coming the next, or it was a Saturday and snow was forecasted for Mon). The Sebring had a strange rim size. I was shocked no one had tires in stock...except Barry @ Direct Tire.

It sort-of worked out since Mrs Sky absolutely loves those tires. They were only twice as expensive as "decent" tires. *cough cough* I think they belong on an Audi TT or something.

 

[bigbog]

.....

I've heard that the Amtrak Downeaster from Portland to Boston has seen an increase in passengers. Definitely good news!

Trailboss,
I could go for a SouWestah'....Portland to various stops in NH & VT....then straight through to various stops in the Rockies...8)

 

[bigbog]

........

Those Civic are great on gas. I had one in 91...should have kept it.

Same here ALLSKIING, mine was Toyota Corolla, but will look for who has the deals on the imaginative Hybrids this coming Fall...06's vs 07's. Haven't sat down to accurately figure it out, but I bet one will pay for itself, gas-wise, in short time.

 

[kbroderick]

OT: tires

re: 1) I paid far out the arse for m wife's snow tires...V-Redestein (a Dutch tire). ... (and I refuse to pay out the arse for summer V-R's).

...

Tires are the wrong thing to go cheap on.

You seem to be contradicting yourself

When debating whether or not to drop a lot of cash on tires, keep in mind that even high performance tires are still cheaper than a crash (and far less likely to cause serious bodily injury). I picked up my summer tires from onlinetires.com and got a pretty decent deal, although tirerack has better customer service. Let's put it this way: my previous set of thoroughly worn (i.e. not enough tread for inspection) summer tires outperformed a set of cheap all-seasons in like-new condition in the rain. I expected them to work better on dry pavement, but the decreased performance of the "all-seasons" in the rain was a rather unpleasant surprise.

(And on that note, I really need to get around to putting my summer wheels and tires back on my car.)

 

[Geoff]

Changes in gas prices aren't going to modify my driving patterns. I'm certainly not going skiing less.

On the snow tire discussion tangent:
The Mountaineer (rebadged Ford Exploder), I run studded Nokians. It's frightening on snow with the stock tires. AWD doesn't help the lousy cornering and braking characteristics of a 5,000 pound car. It sounds like a piece of farm equipment all winter from the road noise created by the studs but I think the added safety margin is worth it.

My VW GTI has Nokian friction tires. I never got around to putting them on the car last winter which speaks volumes for how little snow we got.

Both cars have spare rims for the snow tires. You can usually find them dirt cheap on eBay from somebody who is dumping them after buying fancier aftermarket wheels.

 

[Marc]

AWD doesn't help the lousy cornering and braking characteristics of a 5,000 pound car.

I commend you for being in the minority of intelligent SUV owners and operators.

 

[ALLSKIING]

I commend you for being in the minority of intelligent SUV owners and operators.

Big rubber with big rims really helps with this issue. My SUV has 275/55/18 and really does a nice job in the corners for a SUV.

 

[Marc]

Big rubber with big rims really helps with this issue. My SUV has 275/55/18 and really does a nice job in the corners for a SUV.

You are right, certainly, that better rubber with lower aspect ratios will improve handling feel and characteristics wil likely reduce the feeling of cornering crawl and skidding, but will still do nothing to change a softer (when compared with the average car) and longer travel suspension, solid rear axle, but most importantly, a high center of gravity.

 

[Sky]

You seem to be contradicting yourself

Agreed, it does appear like I'm contradicting myself. Let me clarify....Tire Rack sells the Blizzac for $88 per, let's round that up to $100 (installed, balanced etc). An excellent tire and very affodable IMO. Consider I paid twice that price for the VR's. *choke* Now that the deed is done...and I've been able to get 4 winters out of them...Life-cycle cost taken into account PLUS my extremely happy wife...a bargain.

I bought her brand new summer tires this spring (her Michelins although looking like they had plenty of tread, were "old rubber". I bought Bridgestone Turanza's I think. I get treated very well @ my local Firestone *very well*. I didn't approach V-Redestein prices...yet Mrs Sky loves the feel of her new sneakers. AND...when those VR's get "old rubber"...Blizzac's pal.

So there's contradicting oneself....and then there's...REALLY contradicting oneself yes?

 

[tekweezle]

high gas prices will definitely affect my choices.

I will probably do less 1 day and weekend driving trips in favor of longer trips by bus or plane.

I will probably stay at resorts with villages where I can get around without a car.

probably car pool aggressively and try to have a full car where feasible.

I already replaced my gas guzzling SUV with an AWD car.