Worst Culprits of Trail Count Manipulation

[kcyanks1]

I actually think Stowe's upper/lower distinctions are very helpful. I don't care about the total number. But from their snow report, you can figure out exactly what is open. You don't have to have Goat marked open only to learn that the top is closed. The report tells you, because "Upper Goat" will be marked closed. They even go further and use partial opening designations. So if Upper Liftline is marked as partially open, you know that the actual fun part of Liftline at the way top is closed. Perhaps they could have kept 48 trails and still split up the open/closed report this way, but I think that would be confusing. Then if part of a trail is open they say it's open, so they can have all 48 "open" yet large portions of the mountain closed. The way they do it now works very well, in my view.

That is the other side of the argument but most mountains will just note on the snow report that "so and so is open from trail A cutover". I find that a lot more refreshing then take one continuous trail and cutting it into three sections. On their trail report they already specify how much of each section is open. Why can't they do it the same way? Especially considering everyone gets trail reports from the site or an app instead of a snow phone nowadays

I don't think that works as well, because the trail report would become a huge mess. it isn't just one or two trails that might be partly open, it could be numerous trails. Taking Stowe, in a good mid-season situation, only Upper Goat, Upper Starr, and Upper Lookout are closed, and Upper Liftline is partially open. That may not be too bad, but sometimes more portions of trails are closed. It's just so much easier to divide them up. We know that saying Stowe has 112-or-whatever trails is a joke number wise. But what matters more, accurate information about what is really open, or a "realistic" trail count that feels good? I definitely prefer accurate information, so I know what is open and can make my decision whether to go and, once I'm there, where to ski.

 

[St. Bear]

I don't think that works as well, because the trail report would become a huge mess. it isn't just one or two trails that might be partly open, it could be numerous trails. Taking Stowe, in a good mid-season situation, only Upper Goat, Upper Starr, and Upper Lookout are closed, and Upper Liftline is partially open. That may not be too bad, but sometimes more portions of trails are closed. It's just so much easier to divide them up. We know that saying Stowe has 112-or-whatever trails is a joke number wise. But what matters more, accurate information about what is really open, or a "realistic" trail count that feels good? I definitely prefer accurate information, so I know what is open and can make my decision whether to go and, once I'm there, where to ski.

I've heard one of the reasons for the change, in addition to the competitive market, is that the "upper" and "lower" trail designations make it easier for ski patrol to do their thing. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but it sounds logical.

 

[steamboat1]

Killington's trail count has actually gone down. At one time they had over 200 trails listed. Now it's down to something like 140. For instance there used to be upper, middle & lower Superstar listed. Now it's only lower Superstar & Superstar headwall. I think the old reporting system was better. In the early season they'll often have the headwall open but then you have to cut over to Skyelark. Then they'll open the middle section but you still have to cut over to Skyelark lower down. In that scenario they'll have lower Superstar listed as open when in actuality it's not.

 

[Nick]

The Poconos.

***Drops Mic***

[/End thread]

Love the visual like .. whatever!

 

[MadMadWorld]

I've heard one of the reasons for the change, in addition to the competitive market, is that the "upper" and "lower" trail designations make it easier for ski patrol to do their thing. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but it sounds logical.

Easier how? I just don't see the need.

 

[MadMadWorld]

I don't think that works as well, because the trail report would become a huge mess. it isn't just one or two trails that might be partly open, it could be numerous trails. Taking Stowe, in a good mid-season situation, only Upper Goat, Upper Starr, and Upper Lookout are closed, and Upper Liftline is partially open. That may not be too bad, but sometimes more portions of trails are closed. It's just so much easier to divide them up. We know that saying Stowe has 112-or-whatever trails is a joke number wise. But what matters more, accurate information about what is really open, or a "realistic" trail count that feels good? I definitely prefer accurate information, so I know what is open and can make my decision whether to go and, once I'm there, where to ski.

Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I can understand your reasoning but I just don't agree with it. They just take the pie and cut it smaller and smaller. Taking a trail and cutting it into three sections is one thing. But to now take one of those sections and say that a 1/3 of that is open is ridiculous. I'm not a math wiz but I believe that means that they are saying 1/6 of a trail is open!!

 

[drjeff]

Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I can understand your reasoning but I just don't agree with it. They just take the pie and cut it smaller and smaller. Taking a trail and cutting it into three sections is one thing. But to now take one of those sections and say that a 1/3 of that is open is ridiculous. I'm not a math wiz but I believe that means that they are saying 1/6 of a trail is open!!

Acres and miles(or kilometers where appropriate) is what really matters to me in a trail report. An acre is an acre and a mile is a mile no matter whether you're at Stowe, Caberfee, Whistler, Portillo, Coronet Peak, Sochi or Chamonix. A trail isn't a constant from resort to resort, its a HUGE variable. Just like IMHO, ALL cellphones should have a true universal charging plug, all ski reports should have a universal open terrain reporting system!

 

[bobbutts]

View attachment 7806

Here is an aerial shot. Yes it is a cluster f in the beginner area

good headwalls there. I'd be stoked to shred that gnar as long as it's not manky

 

[bobbutts]

The trail maps in this thread are a good example of what happens when a ski area doesn't hire James Niehues

 

[ss20]

Killington's trail count has actually gone down. At one time they had over 200 trails listed. Now it's down to something like 140. For instance there used to be upper, middle & lower Superstar listed. Now it's only lower Superstar & Superstar headwall. I think the old reporting system was better. In the early season they'll often have the headwall open but then you have to cut over to Skyelark. Then they'll open the middle section but you still have to cut over to Skyelark lower down. In that scenario they'll have lower Superstar listed as open when in actuality it's not.

Correct, but they lost about 20 trails when Sunrise was shrunk. Another 5ish were lost when upper Ramshead was lost.

 

[TropicTundR]

Belleayre,NY:

After the last storm Current Conditions had all their glades 100% OPEN. Got there midmorning and all were closed

 

[Gilligan]

I know some of the marketing staff at Stowe. They honestly didn't want to bump trail count like they did but had little choice. They were losing affluent British tour groups to the limes of Killington and Sunday river. They went over board for sure but I can understand why they abandoned the great 48 marketing campaign and trail count

But I thought Stowe never tried to compete with Killington and Sunday River. :roll:

 

[deadheadskier]

But I thought Stowe never tried to compete with Killington and Sunday River. :roll:

:lol:

you so smaht. you got me.

 

[Puck it]

View attachment 7806

Here is an aerial shot. Yes it is a cluster f in the beginner area

Are those piles of dirt and stone a la Le Massif?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Belleayre,NY:

After the last storm Current Conditions had all their glades 100% OPEN. Got there midmorning and all were closed

I would be belligerently angry. :evil:

 

[Boston Bulldog]

View attachment 7803
Caberfae Peaks in Cadillac Mi claims 34 trails. Some of the runs might only be 30'-50' long. Other areas they clump 3 trails in one big open area.

Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

 

[MadMadWorld]

Quite possibly the worst trail names as well. Upper Ski Shop??

 

[Boston Bulldog]

Quite possibly the worst trail names as well. Upper Ski Shop??

I think that Cannon's Stinky Street is the worst "trail" and worst trail name a mountain could have dreamed up

 

[miskier1970]

That's hysterical, probably only 10 or 12 trails. That's even worse than my Sno Mountain example. We may have a winner.



Right, the trail map makes it look short and steep.

It is short and somewhat steep. The runs are maybe 1/2 mile tops.

 

[miskier1970]

Are those piles of dirt and stone a la Le Massif?

The upper 1/3 of the hill on the left is man made.