X-Country Questions

[Bumpsis]

I'm thinking about getting a new set up (skis, bindings, boots)and I'm curious about the non-wax skis.

So what would I give up in terms of performace if I go from wax to non-wax ski?

Is climbing as good as on a well chosen wax?
I suppose I loose something in gliding ability, how much?

I spend most of my XC time on trails and at least for now, favor the classic (kick-glide) method.

I'm generally quite happy with my waxing abilities and most of the time, I have solid grip on a climb and kick, but lets face it, on extended runs, especially on hard (cold) snow the wax does come off.
Also, higher temps (32 F and up) can be really difficlut to wax for and soft wax is just plain messy.
Finally, it would be nice just to click into the skis and forgo the waxing ritual.

Are there significant differences between the non-wax patterns (brands)?
Are some "grippier" or faster than others?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated

 

[bigbog]

waxless, fishy bases.......

Ok uphill...I have a question or two 4you,
Have you kept in touch with the seasonal fishscaled skis to know if there's anything out there essentially like a fish-scaled tele ski. Waxless w/scales, metal edges and a wide waist.
There's a nearby City Forest....and everywhere else here in upstate Maine, virtually limitless...IF these darn ski companies would make some multi-category boards....

Steve

 

[SAB]

For performance - a waxless ski is 10-12% slower than the same model waxable ski with a good wax job. Obviously, that is going to vary from company to company and ski to ski, but at least it gives you an idea. The climbing ability (relative to waxable) is going to vary greatly depending on temp. In some cases, the waxless will actually be alot better - in some cases not. Actually, there was a case a number of years ago on the World Cup where Bill Koch, on a very difficult waxing day, took a rasp to his ski bases and won a world cup race on what were essentially waxless skis! It really is the loss of glide that most people focus on when discussing loss of performance for a waxless ski.

As far as waxless tele skis go - I don't think there is anything that really fits the bill. There are some very nice waxless, wide backcountry skis on the market. I have a pair of Kahru Catamounts which fit that description - I thought I'd be able to backcountry tele on them but that didn't turn out to be the case. Any manufacturer that has put a waxless pattern on a backcountry ski has made the ski a double camber ski. When you try to turn on them, the ski doesn't curve the way a single-camber, tele ski would and I have found that the performance of the ski while doing a tele turn is greatly diminished. Everyone I know who is doing any backcountry tele is on a single camber tele ski and just slaps on some wax (whenever they aren't using skins).

If you decide to look for a backcountry waxless ski - check out the line from Fisher. The model names are something like the Outbound, the Outta Bounds, and the Way Outta Bounds, or something like that. At least a couple of years ago, they seemed like the best choice for a wide waxless backcountry ski.

If you find anything single camber with a waxless pattern, please let me know!

 

[bigbog]

SAB...you hit the accurate name given to the skis.....backcountry, waxless...etc. Ski Rack had one pair of Fischer Boundless Crowns! (THAT is the ski that has what I'd like to try...of course, I went back today(Sat)...and they're gonzo....waxless, scales, sidecut, metal edges, 69mm waist.
Fischer Boundless Crowns...just gets you to the page, then for just a description :evil: , goto SKIS > S-Bound. I reallllly would like to just pick these things up, with some bindings before our snow cover is lost. I have some Scarpa Lasers....may not be the ultimate boot for the setup, but it's a start.
I'll find a pair somewhere.... 8)

Good info Uphill....

 

[David Metsky]

The Fischer skis are good, but their waxless pattern leaves something to be desired for grip. I have the Outtabounds, and a friend has the Outtabound Crown, and her skis really don't climb that well unless it's a nice warm day. The Karhu line of waxless backcountry skis (like the Orion) will have better grip being a raised fishscale pattern as opposed to the cut-in pattern on the Fischers.

IMO, waxless is great for days right around 32 degrees or warmer. For colder temps I much prefer waxable.

-dave-

 

[bigbog]

thanks for the info Dave. That Outtabounds looks nice.

 

[Bumpsis]

Thanks for the info so far.
Any opinions on Atomic waxless patterns?

Couple of weeks back I was chasing some guy up a trail. He was on some model of waxless Atomics and obviously had a nice grip on the uphills in addition to somewhat better VO2 Max capacity.
I caught up to him on the downhills having a better glide.

Anyway, sounds like people are quite satisfied with the waxless solutions. I'll probably go with Dave's advice and keep waxing for colder conditions.