The "Sugarbush Thread"

[kingslug]

When you add it all up..what's the alternative looking forward?

 

[HowieT2]

F'ugly and really don't work very well. Best thing VT ever did was ban those gawd-awful windmills from the spin of the Greens. If you've seen the travesty of those just NW of Newfound Lake in NH - just an eyesore. So many of them do not operate on a regular basis either.
Drive to the Cape and see a couple spinning, a couple not so much.

Then there's this: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-environmental-fiasco-of-wind-energy/

There's more than one side to the energy story. Follow the money. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/04/why-wind-and-solar-energy-are-doomed-to-failure.php

If it wasn't subsidized, it wouldn't be built, as its not cost-effective. French don't have a lot right, but they do have the nuclear gig right, clean, cheap, and 'renewable'.

Apparently they've solved the storage problem as well.

OK, hit it hard. I can take it. ( while you're at it, how do you solve the dead solar panel waste problem?)

Solar Power: An Environmental Disaster

Solar power is expensive, unreliable and environmentally destructive. So it doesn't come into being through consumer demand; rather, by government fiat or subsidy. The federal government controls the military, so, sadly, our armed forces have been dragged into the government's alleged fight...

www.powerlineblog.com

unfortunately for your argument you are quoting 5 year old propaganda. In those 5 years the cost of solar has plummeted, more so than even the rosiest forecasts. So it is incorrect to say solar is only being built because of subsidies. Just not true. What is true is that solar is now lower cost than natural gas or coal, which is why solar installations are being installed by consumers, businesses and electricity providers not just in the US but all over the world.

 

[thebigo]

unfortunately for your argument you are quoting 5 year old propaganda. In those 5 years the cost of solar has plummeted, more so than even the rosiest forecasts. So it is incorrect to say solar is only being built because of subsidies. Just not true. What is true is that solar is now lower cost than natural gas or coal, which is why solar installations are being installed by consumers, businesses and electricity providers not just in the US but all over the world.

You may be entirely correct on the economics of solar but it does not change the fact that solar arrays are ugly and require direct sunlight to be cost effective. I looked at rooftop panels on my house but had to cut down several dozen trees, including a several foot diameter boss pine and what I am told are colonial era old growth shade trees. As much as I like the idea of solar, I like the trees more.

In my estimation we are still in the early days of solar. Solar is not going to truly take off until incorporated into items already accepted as ugly. Examples include solar asphalt, durable low cost solar shingles/siding and solar paint.

 

[cdskier]

You may be entirely correct on the economics of solar but it does not change the fact that solar arrays are ugly and require direct sunlight to be cost effective. I looked at rooftop panels on my house but had to cut down several dozen trees, including a several foot diameter boss pine and what I am told are colonial era old growth shade trees. As much as I like the idea of solar, I like the trees more.

In my estimation we are still in the early days of solar. Solar is not going to truly take off until incorporated into items already accepted as ugly. Examples include solar asphalt, durable low cost solar shingles/siding and solar paint.

I'd argue solar arrays are less ugly than a power plant...

You're right that they're not appropriate for all locations though.

 

[kingslug]

Like this: https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

 

[mikec142]

Like this: https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

Oddly enough, I just read an article about these. They sound amazing, but apparently Tesla is having a problem with the costs and they are quoting one thing and then when it comes time to deliver the price is much, much higher.

 

[mikec142]

I'm all for solar. Even if it's more costly. At the end of the day, it's gonna cost society a lot more if climate change continues at current pace.

 

[Hawk]

F'ugly and really don't work very well. Best thing VT ever did was ban those gawd-awful windmills from the spin of the Greens. If you've seen the travesty of those just NW of Newfound Lake in NH - just an eyesore. So many of them do not operate on a regular basis either.
Drive to the Cape and see a couple spinning, a couple not so much.

Then there's this: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-environmental-fiasco-of-wind-energy/

There's more than one side to the energy story. Follow the money. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/04/why-wind-and-solar-energy-are-doomed-to-failure.php

If it wasn't subsidized, it wouldn't be built, as its not cost-effective. French don't have a lot right, but they do have the nuclear gig right, clean, cheap, and 'renewable'.

Apparently they've solved the storage problem as well.

OK, hit it hard. I can take it. ( while you're at it, how do you solve the dead solar panel waste problem?)

Solar Power: An Environmental Disaster

Solar power is expensive, unreliable and environmentally destructive. So it doesn't come into being through consumer demand; rather, by government fiat or subsidy. The federal government controls the military, so, sadly, our armed forces have been dragged into the government's alleged fight...

www.powerlineblog.com

Sorry you feel that way. Also it is funny that both articles are from Republican based entities that have ties to big oil. No wonder they done like wind or solar energy.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Oddly enough, I just read an article about these. They sound amazing, but apparently Tesla is having a problem with the costs and they are quoting one thing and then when it comes time to deliver the price is much, much higher.

Like a moving company! Get a quote then day before they review inventory and quote you higher then the day they arrive they go for the big bump in price.

 

[kingslug]

The boss is getting his done now...I'll find out how it goes.

 

[djd66]

The cost of panels (from China) would be a lot less if they were not subject to 106% duty

 

[NYDB]

Someone needs to delete the last 2 pages of this thread. Jesus enjoy your summer folks.

 

[Not Sure]

The cost of panels (from China) would be a lot less if they were not subject to 106% duty

Solar panels contribute to global warming ...bad albedo number . Manufacturing in China has little environmental regulations.

Buy a Heat pump and recycle some global warming or go geothermal if your planning on owning the same residence for a long period.

 

[SkiTheEast]

Wow, I love the annual brew grass festival but just saw $135 per ticket (think that is 3x what it was in 2019)...welcome to covid pricing with limited crowds

 

[cdskier]

Wow, I love the annual brew grass festival but just saw $135 per ticket (think that is 3x what it was in 2019)...welcome to covid pricing with limited crowds

It was $40 in 2019, so more than 3x this year (although the price does include some sort of food this year and a hat!). I wasn't planning on attending this year anyway, but when I saw the price that definitely sealed the deal on not going.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i am all about things being more expensive and less crowded.

going to see the disco biscuits next weekend. its a drive in. my friends and I get a huge private pod that other people can't tromp through. the tickets are more expensive than a normal concert, but you better believe lots of byobooze is getting snuck into that venue in our private vehicle.

 

[Hawk]

Ya, that is usually our first big cycling weekend in the Champlain Valley coupled with that. No one in my group is willing to pay that price so we are planning to have our local buddies stock up on all kinds of VT beer and have our own brew fest after the ride. That is too bad. I have not missed this in past years.

 

[cdskier]

i am all about things being more expensive and less crowded.

I'm fine with that to a point. But when you couple a >3x price increase with the fact that there are also only going to be about 1/3 of the breweries that they'd normally have, I can't justify it.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Wow, I love the annual brew grass festival but just saw $135 per ticket (think that is 3x what it was in 2019)...welcome to covid pricing with limited crowds

It is absurd - we looked in some concerts at Meadow Brook and the prices are through the roof. It is like they are trying to recoup some of the losses from last year and make money this year. Auto sale prices are higher as well, Gas prices. it has gone nuts.

 

[dblskifanatic]

I'm fine with that to a point. But when you couple a >3x price increase with the fact that there are also only going to be about 1/3 of the breweries that they'd normally have, I can't justify it.

A Basins Brew festival did the same thing. They give you a plastic mug that gets refilled for the equivalent price of 6 pints at the bar. Did not make sense economically. I guess price events so it is a elite status thing?