RUMOR...Killington Opening This Weekend!

[powhunter]

will there be seeded moguls on vertigo saturday???

 

[Highway Star]

If you all truly want the answers to your burning can't eat can't sleep kmart opening questions I challenge all of you to call Spin on his cell phone. The one he posted in this thread.

Already tried several times - got a busy signal.

 

[Greg]

will there be seeded moguls on vertigo saturday???

I heard by Sunday, along with snow making to start on the Fiddle.

 

[WJenness]

I heard by Sunday, along with snow making to start on the Fiddle.

Certainly would be beast-ly...

-w

 

[Highway Star]

I heard by Sunday, along with snow making to start on the Fiddle.

WoooT!

 

[tcharron]

WoooT!

We're not laughing WITH you.....

 

[Greg]

I'm trying to decide who has less credibility? Highway Star or Tom Horrocks?

I think it's pathetic that Killington management refuses to talk straight. This Horrocks marketing blitz is yet another example of their steady stream of half-truths.

I came across this article today:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20091013/NEWS/910139994

Check out the video on the right side and listen very closely to what Tom has to say in it, particularly the last 20 seconds or so. This was Tuesday morning mind you. Tom has been pretty consistent all along. I think all the rumor mongering and speculation is what set you all up for disappointment.

 

[St. Bear]

I came across this article today:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20091013/NEWS/910139994

Check out the video on the right side and listen very closely to what Tom has to say in it, particularly the last 20 seconds or so. This was Tuesday morning mind you. Tom has been pretty consistent all along. I think all the rumor mongering and speculation is what set you all up for disappointment.

I think people set themselves up for disappointment. There's such a large population of Killington skiers on this site, that any hint of good news (real or imagined) is constantly talked about in 5 simultaneous threads and blown out of proportion with gifs and smiley faces and bold font. It gets to the point that anytime real life steps in and things don't turn out as you hoped, people get pissed off. Well, they shouldn't have worked themselves into a frenzy in the first place.

 

[tcharron]

I came across this article today:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20091013/NEWS/910139994

Check out the video on the right side and listen very closely to what Tom has to say in it, particularly the last 20 seconds or so. This was Tuesday morning mind you. Tom has been pretty consistent all along. I think all the rumor mongering and speculation is what set you all up for disappointment.

Then, why mention it at all? I don't see any press announcements saying the Killington is stocking up the freezers with Hamburgers, or making sure the kegs are all set.

 

[Greg]

Then, why mention it at all? I don't see any press announcements saying the Killington is stocking up the freezers with Hamburgers, or making sure the kegs are all set.

Hardly a fair analogy. There's obvious marketing value in it, and like I said before, the timing was perfect with the K50 and early bird pass promotions ending this week. No brainer to announce the snow making. They do it every year, as do many other resorts. And while I'm sure they would have liked to open, the fact is they never indicated they would and then pulled back. People just read too much into it and came to their own conclusions.

 

[tcharron]

Hardly a fair analogy. There's obvious marketing value in it, and like I said before, the timing was perfect with the K50 and early bird pass promotions ending this week. No brainer to announce the snow making. They do it every year, as do many other resorts. And while I'm sure they would have liked to open, the fact is they never indicated they would and then pulled back. People just read too much into it and came to their own conclusions.

I guess it comes down to what 'To be open soon' really means. In this case, Tom really made the inference in posts here that they where ready to go take Sunday River on.

But here's the crux of the issue. At least a month ago, the intent was to open for early November, with snow making to start targeting October 26th. Well, it started two weeks earlier. But it appears that the opening which was going to be after a few days of snowmaking is still where it was. So, one of two things, really.

First, it means this years opening was going to be lackluster, if they're using the argument that 'Must.. Build.. Base.." then the initial plan was to NOT build base. But, now that they have time, they can't open with the same conditions as they originally intended?

I mean, K can't have it both ways. Either they poorly planned this years opening, or they could very easily be open right now with the quality that they had originally planned.

 

[Greg]

I guess it comes down to what 'To be open soon' really means. In this case, Tom really made the inference in posts here that they where ready to go take Sunday River on.

But here's the crux of the issue. At least a month ago, the intent was to open for early November, with snow making to start targeting October 26th. Well, it started two weeks earlier. But it appears that the opening which was going to be after a few days of snowmaking is still where it was. So, one of two things, really.

First, it means this years opening was going to be lackluster, if they're using the argument that 'Must.. Build.. Base.." then the initial plan was to NOT build base. But, now that they have time, they can't open with the same conditions as they originally intended?

I mean, K can't have it both ways. Either they poorly planned this years opening, or they could very easily be open right now with the quality that they had originally planned.

I think at this early part of the season it makes sense to under-promise/over-deliver. Now many will argue they are over-promising, but that quite frankly is a matter of perception and opinion. I don't see it that way. I would guess that if they get another window say late next week, and they can make enough snow at the lower elevation, then we will see an opening prior to November 1. Still too far out to tell.

But just because they got decent air temperature to make snow 2 weeks ahead of schedule doesn't mean all conditions were optimal. As many have said humidity has been high, ground is still somewhat warm and one item that Tom mentioned a few weeks back, is that the water is still warmer than is optimal. These issues are less of a concern at the higher elevations, but are at lower apparently.

It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...

 

[Highway Star]

It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...

Obviously, October skiing isn't that big of a deal, so why would they need to bother with a new upper mountain lift?

:flame:

 

[Greg]

Obviously, October skiing isn't that big of a deal, so why would they need to bother with a new upper mountain lift?

:flame:

I understand there are other items higher on the priority list.

 

[tcharron]

I think at this early part of the season it makes sense to under-promise/over-deliver. Now many will argue they are over-promising, but that quite frankly is a matter of perception and opinion. I don't see it that way. I would guess that if they get another window say late next week, and they can make enough snow at the lower elevation, then we will see an opening prior to November 1. Still too far out to tell.

But just because they got decent air temperature to make snow 2 weeks ahead of schedule doesn't mean all conditions were optimal. As many have said humidity has been high, ground is still somewhat warm and one item that Tom mentioned a few weeks back, is that the water is still warmer than is optimal. These issues are less of a concern at the higher elevations, but are at lower apparently.

It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...

Totally agree on what their reasons could be for NOT opening. But since Tom has a habit of hyping up things like there, and then providing little or no feedback BACK to their users when they appear disappointed. Well, no wonder.

It's be REALLY easy to post a simple,

'Guys, I'm really sorry if you misunderstood what my intent was. We're really wanting to pile up reserves, but becouse of this, that, etc, we want to target an opening date. And here's why.'

This year it was really looking like maybe they'd stop treating people as numbers, but as skiers. I was even considering going back on up this year. *shrug*

 

[Highway Star]

I understand there are other items higher on the priority list.

I'm being sarcastic.

Again, I've done out the math here before.

It currently costs them roughly $200K++ in snowmaking and labor to get open for the season.

A 1700ft, fixed grip quad, with limited chair count, new, even on the mountainside there, should be around $1m. To relocate an existing lift, MUCH less. Surface lift, even less.

What's the ROI? You figure it out.

But it's one of the most important and badly needed things they could be doing.

 

[drjeff]

Totally agree on what their reasons could be for NOT opening. But since Tom has a habit of hyping up things like there, and then providing little or no feedback BACK to their users when they appear disappointed. Well, no wonder.

It's be REALLY easy to post a simple,

'Guys, I'm really sorry if you misunderstood what my intent was. We're really wanting to pile up reserves, but becouse of this, that, etc, we want to target an opening date. And here's why.'

This year it was really looking like maybe they'd stop treating people as numbers, but as skiers. I was even considering going back on up this year. *shrug*

In retrospect, it probably would have been a better thing to hold back the announcement of the return of the Beast of the East, until the Beast was ready to "roar" in the form of lift served skiing + riding. I do completely understand that the timing of the announcement just before the cheaper pass//k50 ticket cut off day probably wasn't a coincidence.

 

[Geoff]

I think at this early part of the season it makes sense to under-promise/over-deliver. Now many will argue they are over-promising, but that quite frankly is a matter of perception and opinion. I don't see it that way. I would guess that if they get another window say late next week, and they can make enough snow at the lower elevation, then we will see an opening prior to November 1. Still too far out to tell.

But just because they got decent air temperature to make snow 2 weeks ahead of schedule doesn't mean all conditions were optimal. As many have said humidity has been high, ground is still somewhat warm and one item that Tom mentioned a few weeks back, is that the water is still warmer than is optimal. These issues are less of a concern at the higher elevations, but are at lower apparently.

It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...

Face it, Greg. Tom Horrocks used you and your web site to hype his ski resort. If he's paying you for it, I guess I can understand your position.

Oct 13, 2009, 8:11 AM, Tom Horrocks wrote:
Snowmaking is underway at Killington for the 2009-10 season! We started around 1 a.m. on Reason and will be moving to Rime and Upper Great Northern later this afternoon/evening as temperatures drop.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/killington

Video coming shortly.

Oct 13, 2009, 3:08 PM
The short-term plan is to stockpile at the peak. We'll have to see if the forecast allows for snowmaking down Lower Bunny in this window. If not, looks like another good window for snowmaking temps begins on the 24th. Right now though, we're taking it day to day.
BTW, this is not a marketing trick!

8 minutes later, he puts in this update. Any rational person would interpret this that the forecast was sufficient to blow snow on lower Bunny.

Oct 13, 2009, 3:16 PM
Forecast looks real nice!
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick...0&unit=0&lg=en

Oct 14, 2009, 5:58 PM
We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm.

 

[Greg]

Face it, Greg. Tom Horrocks used you and your web site to hype his ski resort. If he's paying you for it, I guess I can understand your position.

Used? :lol: Ha! I feel so dirty...

For the record, Tom doesn't pay to post here. We encourage participation by reps like Tom and others, and it's not a pay to post arrangement. Nice try though.

Killington does indeed pay to advertise on the forums and on the rest of the site. That's not Tom's department though. In fact, Killington outsources their marketing to a media buyer based in Denver.

Oct 13, 2009, 8:11 AM, Tom Horrocks wrote:
Snowmaking is underway at Killington for the 2009-10 season! We started around 1 a.m. on Reason and will be moving to Rime and Upper Great Northern later this afternoon/evening as temperatures drop.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/killington

Video coming shortly.

Oct 13, 2009, 3:08 PM
The short-term plan is to stockpile at the peak. We'll have to see if the forecast allows for snowmaking down Lower Bunny in this window. If not, looks like another good window for snowmaking temps begins on the 24th. Right now though, we're taking it day to day.
BTW, this is not a marketing trick!

8 minutes later, he puts in this update. Any rational person would interpret this that the forecast was sufficient to blow snow on lower Bunny.

Oct 13, 2009, 3:16 PM
Forecast looks real nice!
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick...0&unit=0&lg=en

Oct 14, 2009, 5:58 PM
We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm.

Thanks for pulling up Tom's post which illustrates my point quite nicely. There are not any half-truths there at all and overall very consistent based on the info available at the time. You suggesting that Tom posting a forecast means he was insisting lower mountain snow making would start is a major stretch. Is it possible that Tom was just excited about the possibility? After all, Tom's a skier too, and a helluva good one.

Now it's time for you to "face it". Many of you read into something that wasn't there.

 

[Puck it]

I would say cut the negativity about SpinmasterK. The reps might stop posting here if all we have is negativity for them. SpinmasterK helped me out big time with my Thanksgiving and got me a great deal at the Grand. They are just trying to do their job.