Spam...

[JD]

Since I don't have permission to post this is the correct forum, I'll put it here. As nice as the Magic Video was, is it cool to have videos produced BY a resort to be in the Ski/snowboard forum (or the trip reposts forum). Kind of like a commercial...well, it actually is a commercial advertisement. SPAM to me. Nice vid., but still, should there be a seperate forum for content prodiced BY resorts?

 

[JD]

More spam apearing by the moment....I feel like a consumer test group on here all of the sudden.

 

[billski]

More spam apearing by the moment....I feel like a consumer test group on here all of the sudden.

where are you finding all this chit?

 

[JD]

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=67148
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=69880
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=69890
I know KingM had a disclosure, and hios post is not really offensive, but there is a trend of the industry taking notice of the popularity of these places and posting content sometimes openly spaming, sometimes more covertly...I find it taints my experience when I come on here to geek out about skiing w/o having to learn tetoneese, in a NE-centric kind of way. If we had a place for spam, I would still look at it, but wouldn't feel tricked into looking at it....subversive advertising is gross to me when it involves my passions....like skiing.
IMHO/$.02

 

[mtl1076]

JD, just to clear something up, the guys over at www.savemagicvermont.com and the people behind that video are not working for Magic. They are shareholders in the new Magic Partnership, which does not yet own/operate Magic, and are some of Magic's biggest supporters.

 

[gmcunni]

[url]http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=69890

sweet, that's a great deal for Mt Snow. Thanks for pointing it out i hadn't seen the original thread. looks like i'm going to Mt Snow saturday!!

 

[billski]

Well I flamed on a couple of them, but later after cool heads prevailed, I recognized that it is Greg's site, and he can allow what he pleases. If he wants to put up with it, that's his choice.

This topic really belongs in the Site Feedback category.

 

[JD]

Well I flamed on a couple of them, but later after cool heads prevailed, I recognized that it is Greg's site, and he can allow what he pleases. If he wants to put up with it, that's his choice.

This topic really belongs in the Site Feedback category.

I tried to post it in one of those forums, but didn't have permission. As far as who made the magic vid, I just saw that the camera equipment was "mountain" equipment and maybe made a bad assumption after the "magic crew will have lots of vid" thing. But that doesn't mean there isn't a trend in Business entities logging in to this forum and self promoting. Hey, if it don't bother anyone else....that's cool. Just wondering if it did really. Seems subversive and a bit slimy to me...I know other sites and user groups would call out such a spammy thing as spam....spam and eggs. Spam with more spam.....I don't want any spam. I don't like it. Other people can have my spam, I guess they luv it..

 

[riverc0il]

I am with ya JD about official mountain reps promoting on forums. They have bastardized most social networking sites as well. But it is nothing new and AZ has had a good relationship with the official channels for some time now. I just ignore the posts/threads that are blatant sales directed self interest.

In KingM's defense, he does offer discounts to fellow forum members as do other "industry insiders" such as Jeff Bokum (whom I have used his service), so I actually think it is fine in those cases where forum members are getting a perk from an active and participating member of the forum rather than getting a spammed word for word promotion open to everyone from someone that only logs in to self promote.

The shills that work at the mountains themselves ( :lol: ) have definitely become more vocal but I think actually the overall trend is less shameless self promotion than I have seen in the past. Its a tough balance to strike and some forum members actually want the industry insider self promotion. It has also helped AZ with content such as its AZ Challenge (which I have long since stopped paying attention to... if I have a question for the mountain, I either pick up the phone, shoot off an email, or go find someone at the mountain to answer my question).

Any ways, I hear ya and simply choose to ignore the blatant marketing drivel when I see it.

 

[billski]

If a member provides positive, useful, constructive participation on an ongoing basis, I have no problem with occasional self-promotion. It's the people who show up day 1, drop spam on day 2 and forward that kill me. I still am highly suspicious of certain low-message-count member who drop "indirect spam", ask a gratuitous question or two, yet never say "thanks", perhaps as a way to obfuscate the blatant spam indicators.

In other forums I moderate, which are non-commercial, I refuse vendor, but do suggest that if they want to get attention, find a member (with no vested interest) who has used their product and ask them if they would mind recommend it, to post a message. It provides a filter and control. I see product information with a legit review/critique/user comment to be very different animal, which is helpful and constructive.

From a web owners perspective, I don't think that Ski Sundown, who pays for a banner ad here, would be too pleased to see that others are getting free advertising. Not as pretty as a banner, but free and in your face nonetheless.

 

[polski]

There are a lot of fine lines as people with vested interests increasingly use social media. To me the key is what do the posters genuinely contribute to the community from which they overtly or more subtly seek some return? (edit: Bill just made a similar point)

KingM's post didn't bother me because he regularly contributes here as a fellow skier, in addition to offering an AZ discount (and buying banner ads that help support the site); I thought it was smart of him to seek this crowd's input. Yes his post also raised his establishment's profile but his question was valid so I'm fine with that.

The Magic vid has been explained -- I suppose it could be argued that as shareholders/prospective owners (and, I gather, good buddies with management) the people who put that together have an interest but realistically it'll be many years if ever before it's financial; now it's just a sincere desire to keep open a mountain they love. Same as an MRG shareholder like me singing MRG's praises, or Magic's even though I don't now own a share there.

The Liftopia thing struck me as a little more of a gray area although it was clearly ID'd as spam and Liftopia does contribute to the community by enabling some sweet deals. If Evmo posted every last Liftopia special that would be too much but I guess it's OK to note the addition of a major resort to their roster, with a kickoff deal.

 

[hammer]

I guess I don't have a problem as long as the posters are identified as industry reps and as long as they also contribute in other discussions.

 

[severine]

I guess I don't have a problem as long as the posters are identified as industry reps and as long as they also contribute in other discussions.

+1

 

[marcski]

I guess I don't have a problem as long as the posters are identified as industry reps and as long as they also contribute in other discussions.

+2 but I think JD's suggestion that posts by those associated with mountains should have its own forum.

 

[billski]

+ posts by those associated with mountains should have its own forum.

Interesting notion. I see that certain other forums are organized that way.

 

[Greg]

From the forum policies that have been in place for many years:

Advertisements/Promotions: Historically, messages containing links to products or relevant Websites have been allowed. Provided the link is in direct response to a message requesting such information, or is on topic and considered valuable enough that it warrants its own thread, these types of links will continue to be allowed. However, links posted by a non-contributing member (e.g. a member posting a product link as their first and only post) may be deleted. The administrator and moderators reserve the right to edit or delete any topic containing an advertisement/promotion at any time. The best approach is to become a contributing member to build some credibility before promoting anything.

Regarding the three examples posted:

1 - Magic guys - hardly spam from the mountain. It's good content to help a mountain that needs it succeed. Totally on topic and enjoyed by many, and I encourage that kind of stuff.
2 - KingM - a contributing member and not only an AZ sponsor, but he's even offered a discount to all AZers. A lot of AZers enjoy staying at the Golden Lion and personally, I like getting the perspective of a small inn owner and skier.
3 - Liftopia - AZ gets a commission from links posted here, and many here have found their service very valuable. Win-win.

As far as industry rep participation, sure, they are going to use the opportunity to shill some stuff from time to time. In return we get "inside" information at times. Give and take. I think those of you that are so offended by this kind of stuff need to channel that energy somewhere else. Life is too short.

Ski Sundown, who pays for a banner ad here

I don't remember sharing the specifics of the advertising contract with you... :roll:

 

[KingM]

2 - KingM - a contributing member and not only an AZ sponsor, but he's even offered a discount to all AZers. A lot of AZers enjoy staying at the Golden Lion and personally, I like getting the perspective of a small inn owner and skier.

I appreciate that and the support of others, but I think I ventured a bit too far out there with the recent thread for my own taste. I was here before I advertised with AZ or offered a discount and would stick around even if I ever sold the place. Since I think of myself more of a skier here rather than an industry person, I'm going to try to keep it lower profile in the future.

Personally, I liked the Magic video and any video that shows snow and skiing. I also think that if, say, Mountain X got on and said, "Don't forget, next Tuesday is our annual $15 lift ticket," I'd really like to see that kind of spam. If Mountain Y gets on every week and starts a new thread that said, "Five Dollar Off Tuesday!" then I would find that annoying.

In general, I think it's great when mountain reps respond to questions or concerns as it shows they care about their most important customers.

 

[campgottagopee]

I appreciate that and the support of others, but I think I ventured a bit too far out there with the recent thread for my own taste. I was here before I advertised with AZ or offered a discount and would stick around even if I ever sold the place. Since I think of myself more of a skier here rather than an industry person, I'm going to try to keep it lower profile in the future.

Personally, I liked the Magic video and any video that shows snow and skiing. I also think that if, say, Mountain X got on and said, "Don't forget, next Tuesday is our annual $15 lift ticket," I'd really like to see that kind of spam. If Mountain Y gets on every week and starts a new thread that said, "Five Dollar Off Tuesday!" then I would find that annoying.

In general, I think it's great when mountain reps respond to questions or concerns as it shows they care about their most important customers.

No need---from reading about your place and what your guests have to say, I'd say you run a stand up operation and anything you post here would be welcome.....just sayin'

 

[severine]

No worries, KingM. I think most had no problem with that. I think it's great that you've been looking for input from your clients and potential clients--a business that responds to its clients' needs will definitely have a better chance of success. Bravo!

 

[orangegondola]

Hi, Just wanted to say hello and let you know that the Magic videos are certainly not from the mountain. Greg (Rustygroomer) and I make the videos along with our friend Guy Douchette, we are basicaly weekend warriors with a decent IMAC. This mountain is our passion and we want to share it with the right people. It worked, I met one of you this weekend, you asked if I was Rusty Groomer and I said yes as that is our joint video account. Sorry I didn't grab your name, was just back from a run and ready to pass out!

We will make videos as we have for years, this is the first year we have the capability to share! Hope you enjoy and thanks for all the feedback!

As for the Mountain on the side of the cams, we needed to tell which camera was which so we used a different color sticker to differentiate!