Mittersill Photos (September 2010)

[SIKSKIER]

Cannon can NOT widen trails more than what existed in the past based on the landswap agreement.There will not be any Mittersill lodge for the foreseeable future.They just had a major lodge expanion at the Peabody area.What do they need an intermountain connect for?It will already be connected with the new lift.What's a "major detriment" to the mountain?Adding a lift to serve all that unused terrain?

Although I've been a Cannon passholder for 34+ years,I'm still on the fence about the Mittersill expansion.I ski there for many of the same reasons you state,low cost,small crowds,and terrain.I don't see that changing much by putting in 1 fixed double chair.

 

[skiberg]

My understanding of the land swap is the same. Also, my understanding is there are no plans beyond what is being done currently. No new lodges, no connecting lifts, no more significant cutting. The development plan is quite minimal. They cut as they did primarily as a safety and liability concern. As I understand there is absolutely no plans to prevent us from hiking as we have in the past. In fact I think the lift will mean much less hiking and much better preservation of the glades off the top of Mittersill. Most people do not know about them anyhow and they will not walk if they can ride.

 

[billski]

All I gotta say is that with 8 pages of posts, I'd better see a lot of Cannon TR's this season!


p.s., what is the old Mittersill base lodge used for these days?

 

[skiberg]

The lodge is a Time share hotel/resort now

 

[AdironRider]

Yeah, that doom and gloom from the bottom of the previous page is just a tad bit over the top if you ask me.

Its quite a jump from adding a double chair to Cannon turning into Loon.

 

[ceo]

Getting into this thread late, there's a very good reason why they didn't drag the concrete mixers up the mountain rather than flying a chopper. A concrete truck has 90 minutes from the time it leaves the plant to get its concrete poured, otherwise the concrete starts to harden. I don't know how close the nearest concrete plant is to Cannon, but I suspect the time it would take to get a concrete truck up to the steep part of the liftline would put you well over that 90 minutes.

 

[Cannonball]

Cannon can NOT widen trails more than what existed in the past based on the landswap agreement.There will not be any Mittersill lodge for the foreseeable future.They just had a major lodge expanion at the Peabody area.What do they need an intermountain connect for?It will already be connected with the new lift.

My understanding of the land swap is the same. Also, my understanding is there are no plans beyond what is being done currently. No new lodges, no connecting lifts, no more significant cutting. The development plan is quite minimal. They cut as they did primarily as a safety and liability concern. As I understand there is absolutely no plans to prevent us from hiking as we have in the past. In fact I think the lift will mean much less hiking and much better preservation of the glades off the top of Mittersill. Most people do not know about them anyhow and they will not walk if they can ride.

Yeah, that doom and gloom from the bottom of the previous page is just a tad bit over the top if you ask me.

Its quite a jump from adding a double chair to Cannon turning into Loon.

We'll see. All I am saying is that it's a slippery slope (no pun intended).

No doom, no gloom, I just liked it how it was. But that's out of my control.

What's a "major detriment" to the mountain?Adding a lift to serve all that unused terrain?

It seems like we see our favorite mountain in two entirely different ways. For me, your second question answers your first. That terrain is far from unused. The major detriment is taking away the somewhat unique existing use and replacing it with a run-of-the-mill type of use.

 

[AdironRider]

You sound like a selfish blowhard.

Its a double lift with no snowmaking, and its taken 20+ years to get it back. You know how long it would take a place like Cannon to do what you call for on that slippery slope? Wouldnt seem that slippery to me, thats for sure.

 

[thetrailboss]

You sound like a selfish blowhard.

All right folks let's keep this on topic and not resort to :flame: please.

 

[Cannonball]

You sound like a selfish blowhard.

Its a double lift with no snowmaking, and its taken 20+ years to get it back. You know how long it would take a place like Cannon to do what you call for on that slippery slope? Wouldnt seem that slippery to me, thats for sure.

You know what...you are right. I probably am selfish and as soon as I wrote that post I regretted it. The fact is, I really don't care that much. I will always have fun riding/skiing wherever I am. That certainly won't change just because of a change at Cannon. I've seen lots of changes at lots of mountains and I have never lost one second of fun as a result. Hell, I can even manage to have fun at Killington!

It very well may impact my number of days at Cannon, but it won't impact my days overall.

I'm done with the debate. I just want it to snow and I want Cannon to have a stellar year. Or more accurately (and true to my selfish nature) I just want me to have a stellar year and I expect most of it to be at Cannon

 

[deadheadskier]

I think there are plenty of folks here who have rather had seen Mittersill stay slack country. I only got to check it once and it was very cool. It definitely will suffer in terms of snow quality with the addition of a lift.

I think people at first will be extremely upset about the diminished quality of snow. Then folks will go crazy with cutting their own lines, which ultimately could make the mountain far better.

When I first moved to Stowe in 1995, it seemed only a small portion of skiers would head into the woods. Only 'experts'. There was a lot of off trail terrain back then, but no where close to as much as is available right now. That mountain is pretty much see it and ski it from boundary to boundary and beyond now. Same could be said for a number of areas. Modern ski technology allows even low intermediates to enjoy glades.

I'm sure tons more lines are going to be opened up all over that mountain with 'purists' looking for a bit more solitude. The soft wood forests of the whites do take a lot more work to open up, so it will take time. It's a shame Cannon doesn't average another 50-100 inches of natural a year.

Hopefully increased skier traffic ($$$) will continue to expand their snowmaking efforts and the regular trails ski better and better in between storms.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think it is understandable why folks wanted it to remain as it was: it was the best slack-country venue pretty much in the Northeast. But on my handful of days over there I found that it was not hard to find nor was it as untracked as it could be. The terrain is very good. I think that it complimented the wider slopes at Cannon quite well. What really piqued my interest was the thought that it "was" a ski area and how much I wished I could have ridden up that double and experienced it when it was an open area. Now that time has come.

I think that folks should be excited that in a bad economy a ski area is making this size of investment. I think that it is good for the sport and for New Hampshire skiing which is competing with Vermont and Maine. Look at Saddleback and Sugarloaf alone who have added much terrain just in the last year or so. Folks will take a second look at skiing in New Hampshire now because of this expansion. Anyone who has driven I-93 south from St. Jay to Littleton knows that when you see Cannon from that angle, most of the terrain that is visible is actually Mittersill and it was dormant. Now that it is open again, Cannon is a very large area to ski and offers much terrain and variety for different skiers and riders.

And give the new manager a pat on the back. He has been able to convince one of the traditionally stingiest state governments to give him more money for snowmaking, new groomers, and now a new area. He got money to renovate Peabody Lodge. This did require closing the tram during peak periods, but you can't have it all. He has done a great job.

I think that it is too bad that folks don't see that for once in a long time Cannon is coming closer to realizing its full potential. It is a really unique area and it is a real important asset for the state. To simply say, "oh just sell it" or "just lease it" really does not do justice to the over 70 years of history that is there and the fact that it has been a state ski area for that time. That's just my opinion...I know if I lived in New Hampshire I'd be so thrilled to have a pass there and to be able to afford such a great mountain.

As to the gripes about the state's management of the area or about how much the Mitty Chair cost, I think those political comments are best addressed by a constituent E-mail or letter to the Governor or the representatives. Just a thought.

 

[riverc0il]

Cannon can NOT widen trails more than what existed in the past based on the landswap agreement.There will not be any Mittersill lodge for the foreseeable future.They just had a major lodge expanion at the Peabody area.What do they need an intermountain connect for?It will already be connected with the new lift.What's a "major detriment" to the mountain?Adding a lift to serve all that unused terrain?

By law there can not be any wider trails than the original foot print. But by definition, that means Cannon can feel free to widen every single trail on the mountain because all the trails have decreased in width since Mittersill was last open. And who has the exact specs for when that was? There will be some fudging allowed, I suspect. I think Cannonball's fears are valid. Even if Cannon opens the trails only to the existing footprint, much of the appeal to Mittersill will be completely lost.

I wouldn't put a lodge past Cannon down the road, either. The mountain clearly is concerned with creature comforts. The Mittersill lift will be the only lift on the mountain that does not have a lodge at its base or summit and requires a lift ride and full ski down to the base to get to the lodge. That shouldn't be a concern but it might be down the road, who knows. I could care less about a lodge over there. Actually, it would be nice to spread the traffic out though that would substantially increase costs (perhaps increasing prices).

What say you regarding the long term viability of the Mittersill Resort? What are the chances that the Inn or some Mittersill Resort land gets sold either to a private developer or to the state? Given the lack of bed base on the mountain, I could see a private developer being very interested in buying the inn, leveling it, and building a monstrous characterless hotel. Any risk of that? I know the home owners at the resort are experiencing substantial property value increases right now but what about the inn and property inside the resort road that boarder the ski area?

 

[riverc0il]

You know what...you are right. I probably am selfish and as soon as I wrote that post I regretted it.

Don't regret it, man! Just because we prefer something different than other folks does not make us selfish no more than other folks are selfish from wanting a lift even though they know it destroys a unique experience unlike almost any where else in New England. If that is selfish, color me indifferent about those that don't enjoying hiking a few minutes for turns.

8)

 

[skiberg]

Gotta agree. I think we are going to se a lot of lines open up. But this alo menas we are goign to lose a lot. people are going to find the stashs that they normally would not knwo how to find. I think you are also going to see the east facing bowl between Cannon and Mit see a lot more lines. I think that face has tremendous potential. Every time i ride the quad i just dream how awesome it would be to have a lift up that face. I think the hike is going to be left to the hardcore Cannon skiers. Most people will ride the lift and this means less traffic up top.

 

[riverc0il]

I think people at first will be extremely upset about the diminished quality of snow. Then folks will go crazy with cutting their own lines, which ultimately could make the mountain far better.

Ha! You didn't get much exploration time when you skied there, did you? There isn't much terrain left to be thinned expecting thick spruce and pine that would require power tools and major work....

 

[skiberg]

Yes but now with a lift the traffic will increase. Before most people just went up and over and took a right at the old lift terminus. Before you might get a few runs a day over there. Now you will be able to get a dozen. Things will change. Think of all the people who will be able to find some of the narrow entry spots. there is goign to be a lot of people at Mit on some days. But that means less people on other parts of the mountain. If you have a nose you will still find the snow.

 

[deadheadskier]

Ha! You didn't get much exploration time when you skied there, did you? There isn't much terrain left to be thinned expecting thick spruce and pine that would require power tools and major work....

I skied a tiny bit and saw a lot more.

It's still not like Stowe where you look up at the mountain and say, "Man, I can ski everywhere here."

That's all I'm sayin.

If Cannon were like Stowe, Kinsman would be like Angel Food to Hell Brook....a half mile + wide glade.

While people might not bust out the power tools, I'm sure much more than just limbing and sappling falling will go on up there as people search out a bit more solitude. While it's mainly hardwoods at Stowe, I've been though a few soft wood areas up there that some fairly large trees have been taken down. Let's just hope people don't get over zealous like 'the gash' on Big Jay.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yes but now with a lift the traffic will increase. Before most people just went up and over and took a right at the old lift terminus. Before you might get a few runs a day over there. Now you will be able to get a dozen. Things will change. Think of all the people who will be able to find some of the narrow entry spots. there is goign to be a lot of people at Mit on some days. But that means less people on other parts of the mountain. If you have a nose you will still find the snow.

I don't think anyone will deny that the lift will put tenfold the traffic on that side of the mountain.

 

[threecy]

Hopefully increased skier traffic ($$$)

Do you really think Cannon will be bringing in new net income? The new lift can realistically serve about 400 people, while significantly increasing operational costs. The average gross income per skier visit at Cannon, before the increase in overhead and variable costs with this new complex - in a good year - is very low.