Belleayre to be part of ORDA?

[legalskier]

Selling out to ORDA won't make the terrain any more interesting...

Yes, Hunter's in bounds terrain rocks but off piste at Belleayre is as much fun as I've ever had in the 'Cats.

Higher prices at Belleayre would probably result in higher prices at Hunter, Windham and Plattekill. This would equate to less skier/rider visits in the Catskills

Platekill would benefit because going from super cheap to fairly cheap is still cheap, drawing more visits relative to the other three. Sometimes I feel guilty about paying so little for such terrific terrain.

 

[riverc0il]

Laszlo (Plattekill) won't be happy until Belle is privatized, which obviously won't happen.

This issue came up in the Cannon lease thread. If a so called poorly managed state run area is privatized, wouldn't that theoretically hurt other ski areas? A private business that is very bottom line driven (especially in light of trying to generate revenue for guaranteed payments to the state) would likely increase their own skier visits through better marketing and services, thereby hurting nearby competitors due to siphoning off their skier visits.

 

[tjf67]

When I was in growing up in Bolton Landing I thought our Gore pass was good at all state ski hills. early 60's to 69 when I moved to Vermont. We did ski Whiteface a few times but Bell was too far south. I guess that changed.

The DEC ran the hills up until ORDA was formed in the 80's. They came into existance to manage the huge debt from the olympics.

 

[Rambo]

I buy a seasons pass to Greek Peak in Central NY and they have a tie-in with ORDA's Whiteface and Gore... You show your Greek Peak seasons pass and you get 50% off the price of a daily lift ticket at Whiteface, which is GREAT. But you only get a 10% discount at Gore which stinks.

 

[dmc]

Yes, Hunter's in bounds terrain rocks but off piste at Belleayre is as much fun as I've ever had in the 'Cats.

and that's the way we Hunter regulars like it...

In my best Jedi voice...
"This is not the trail you seek. there is no slack country at Hunter"

 

[campgottagopee]

I buy a seasons pass to Greek Peak in Central NY and they have a tie-in with ORDA's Whiteface and Gore... You show your Greek Peak seasons pass and you get 50% off the price of a daily lift ticket at Whiteface, which is GREAT. But you only get a 10% discount at Gore which stinks.

I never got that either. Fine w/ me b/c I prefer WF anyway.

 

[thinnmann]

I buy a seasons pass to Greek Peak in Central NY and they have a tie-in with ORDA's Whiteface and Gore... You show your Greek Peak seasons pass and you get 50% off the price of a daily lift ticket at Whiteface, which is GREAT. But you only get a 10% discount at Gore which stinks.

Wow! A Belleayre Season Ticket has given me a big $10 discount at Gore and WF... So it has been cheaper to pick up unused promo passes on eBay for those places.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Here's a second article on the topic.

http://adirondackdailyenterprise.co...4/ORDA-may-take-over-Catskill-ski-resort.html

I also copied this one from nyskiblog.com. There's a good thread going on the possible ORDA takeover there too.

This part of the article really caught my attention:

Should it assume operation of the ski center, ORDA would be running a facility whose operating costs have regularly exceeded revenues, sometimes by more than $1 million, according to budget information provided by DEC. In the winter of 2009-10, the most recent season for which data was available, Belleayre had $6.3 million in operating costs but collected only $5.2 million in revenue.

 

[dmc]

Should it assume operation of the ski center, ORDA would be running a facility whose operating costs have regularly exceeded revenues, sometimes by more than $1 million, according to budget information provided by DEC. In the winter of 2009-10, the most recent season for which data was available, Belleayre had $6.3 million in operating costs but collected only $5.2 million in revenue.

Thats pretty much what I've been complaining about..
The remaining million comes out of my tax dollars.. that could be better spent on teachers..

 

[Rambo]

Thats pretty much what I've been complaining about..
The remaining million comes out of my tax dollars.. that could be better spent on teachers..

So ORDA has to spend a fortune every year maintaining the bobsled/luge facilites, the speed skating oval and the multi-million dollar 90 and 60 meter ski jumps which the general public can't really use except for the public bobsled rides. It seems like the State money put into Bellayre does let the average joe blow skier an opportunity at affordable skiing. Just saying mayber taxpayer money should be eliminated from finacing bobsled/luge, speedskating, and ski jumping first before considering closing Belleayre.

 

[x10003q]

So ORDA has to spend a fortune every year maintaining the bobsled/luge facilites, the speed skating oval and the multi-million dollar 90 and 60 meter ski jumps which the general public can't really use except for the public bobsled rides. It seems like the State money put into Bellayre does let the average joe blow skier an opportunity at affordable skiing. Just saying mayber taxpayer money should be eliminated from finacing bobsled/luge, speedskating, and ski jumping first before considering closing Belleayre.

Don't forget the $20 million convention center in the middle of Lake Placid. Who benefits from the convention center?

 

[Rambo]

Don't forget the $20 million convention center in the middle of Lake Placid. Who benefits from the convention center?

Not sure about the 1980 Olympic arena/ice center... but I did notice the 1932 arena was mostly booked solid with youth hockey tournaments with large numbers of competitors and their families spending lots of money on lodging and meals from both Canada and the US.

 

[x10003q]

Not sure about the 1980 Olympic arena/ice center... but I did notice the 1932 arena was mostly booked solid with youth hockey tournaments with large numbers of competitors and their families spending lots of money on lodging and meals from both Canada and the US.

The new $20million convention center was just completed. I was not talking about the hockey arena. Who benefits from lodging tie in?

 

[tjf67]

The new $20million convention center was just completed. I was not talking about the hockey arena. Who benefits from lodging tie in?

Obviously the local businesses surrounding those venues. Is that a problem?

 

[thetrailboss]

So does this mean that there will be an evil triangle of government owned and operated ski areas in New York as well ?

 

[dmc]

So ORDA has to spend a fortune every year maintaining the bobsled/luge facilites, the speed skating oval and the multi-million dollar 90 and 60 meter ski jumps which the general public can't really use except for the public bobsled rides. It seems like the State money put into Bellayre does let the average joe blow skier an opportunity at affordable skiing. Just saying mayber taxpayer money should be eliminated from finacing bobsled/luge, speedskating, and ski jumping first before considering closing Belleayre.

I can't speak to the other places... I don't know enough about how they work and cover their expenses.

I'm just saying - make a profit and cover expenses and it's all good..

I'd personally rather see teachers keep jobs then the "average joe blow skier" have a day of skiing.. Skiing is discretionary - education is not .

 

[snoseek]

I'd personally rather see teachers keep jobs then the "average joe blow skier" have a day of skiing.. Skiing is discretionary - education is not .

I can vouch for that having gone through NH public schools k-12:wink:

 

[tjf67]

I can't speak to the other places... I don't know enough about how they work and cover their expenses.

I'm just saying - make a profit and cover expenses and it's all good..

I'd personally rather see teachers keep jobs then the "average joe blow skier" have a day of skiing.. Skiing is discretionary - education is not .

How bout taking away all the tax breakst private corp get for building in your community. Same idea. Teachers r not getting the shaft they r just being assimilated into what the private sector went through the past 20 years. They the unions sell it to the public as the kids r getting hurt. Meanwhile they tell there members not to teach that study hall after school cause its not in the contract. Soap box over. Save a teacher reform the union.

 

[deadheadskier]

I can't speak to the other places... I don't know enough about how they work and cover their expenses.

I'm just saying - make a profit and cover expenses and it's all good..

I'd personally rather see teachers keep jobs then the "average joe blow skier" have a day of skiing.. Skiing is discretionary - education is not .

I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, does Central Park in NYC make money? or any other park in the State of NY?

That's just it, parks inherently cost tax payers money, they are an amenity that greatly improves quality of life. Not everyone skis, but not everyone uses the beach at some random state park around the state either. Do you privatize all parks? That's the basis of the argument for the Cannon thread and the State of NH's budget shortfall.

 

[tjf67]

So ORDA has to spend a fortune every year maintaining the bobsled/luge facilites, the speed skating oval and the multi-million dollar 90 and 60 meter ski jumps which the general public can't really use except for the public bobsled rides. It seems like the State money put into Bellayre does let the average joe blow skier an opportunity at affordable skiing. Just saying mayber taxpayer money should be eliminated from finacing bobsled/luge, speedskating, and ski jumping first before considering closing Belleayre.

The public can use any of the venues you mentioned above. Primarily though those venues r there to draw in world wide competitions. They don't draw many spectators but all the competitors and coaches have to eat and sleep somewhere. When orda took over the state was in a heap of shit with all the debt. They formed orda, parked the debt and promoted the area and paid it off. Lake Placid in one of a very few places that hosted the Olympics that has thrived since. So back to your point ORDA and the visitors bureau have more than paid for themselves when you consider the economic impact.