Belleayre to be part of ORDA?

[deadheadskier]

Belleayre pays income, sales, mortgage, and hotel taxes?!?

dude, put the tea down. We know you'd love a country void of government, but lets be real.

Belleayre's presence creates all of those revenue streams.

The people who work there or at businesses in the region all pay income taxes.

Sales tax is generated by the mountain and the local businesses.

Primary and second home owners and local businesses all pay mortgage/property taxes.

People who stay in the hotels while they ski there pay hotel taxes.

 

[mondeo]

But would privatisation lead to a greater benefit to the economy? The people that are paying to ski there and spending money would still do it, those that come because of the free tickets, pack lunches, and gas up NJ either stay home or buy tickets, at Bell or elsewhere. If there's deemed to be a societal benefit to the cost of Bell, then a price needs to be put on it. The cost/benefit of Bell isn't going to be anywhere near, say Central Park, which is fairly cheap relative to the number of people it serves and the basic needs it fulfills.

 

[threecy]

lets be real.

Belleayre's presence creates all of those revenue streams.

The people who work there or at businesses in the region all pay income taxes.

Sales tax is generated by the mountain and the local businesses.

Primary and second home owners and local businesses all pay mortgage/property taxes.

People who stay in the hotels while they ski there pay hotel taxes.

So in your reality, if the people of New York were to instead lease out the ski area, no one would ski there anymore and those revenues would dry up?

 

[catskills]

So in your reality, if the people of New York were to instead lease out the ski area, no one would ski there anymore and those revenues would dry up?

In my reality Belleayre is written into the NY State Constitution. The reality is that Belleayre will NEVER be privatized or leased out. Its a waste of time talking about it. It will never happen. That is REALITY.

 

[deadheadskier]

So in your reality, if the people of New York were to instead lease out the ski area, no one would ski there anymore and those revenues would dry up?

No, I didn't say that at all.

Just pointing out that all you like to focus on is the negative and completely disregard any positives of state run business. You do the same thing with Cannon. It's 100% politics with you, 100% of the time.

 

[x10003q]

He's right..
I'm sick of paying for mini van loads from NJ to ski with my tax $$.
I'm not paying taxes for middle class folks to rip bumps and ski glades... It's just a friggin waste of my money that could be used for better things..

Actually while you think your taxes are paying for NJ skiers (all Belle skiers are from Jersey and only show up with free tickets :wink you might want to know that NYS has over 730 public authorities that are responsible for borrowing 94% of NYS current debt obligations. The current grand total is:
$214,619,548,408. NYS is ultimately responsible for this debt and the interest on the debt.
http://www.osc.state.ny.us/pubauth/data/pa_debt_june2010.pdf
This is all done without voter approval. There is a better chance your tax $$ are going to support this gigantic debt. Belle is small change in the massive debt that has been run up.

 

[Harvey]

The cost/benefit of Bell isn't going to be anywhere near, say Central Park, which is fairly cheap relative to the number of people it serves and the basic needs it fulfills.

Not too drift this thread too much but which are you saying is cheaper? The cost of Central Park is incredibly high. How much revenue would it generate if it was class A office space? It's got to be billions.

 

[dmc]

There is a better chance your tax $$ are going to support this gigantic debt. Belle is small change in the massive debt that has been run up.

We have to do something.. Start somewhere.. Like your guys making your Gov pay for the heli ride he just took to see his kid play baseball.. A drop in the bucket but a drop none the less.

Bell just needs to start making a profit and support itself and succeed! and prosper.. Thats all I really want..

 

[tjf67]

So in your reality, if the people of New York were to instead lease out the ski area, no one would ski there anymore and those revenues would dry up?

That's not an option. The question is can ORDA do the jon equal to or better than for less cost than the DEC. I don't know but it seems like a real avenue for NYS to explore to become more efficient.

 

[Rambo]

Where can all these FREE Belleayre lift tickets be found... in New Jersey somewhere?

I did hear that in the past, that a person could go to the New York State Fair and go to the DEC building and get a voucher for a complimentary Belleayre lift ticket.

Also one time I was at Belleayre at the end of the season and a guy in the parking lot sold me a voucher for a complimentary lift ticket which he said Belleayre representatives were giving out at some major Golf show/exhibition.

 

[threecy]

completely disregard any positives of state run business.

Absolutely.

 

[threecy]

In my reality Belleayre is written into the NY State Constitution.

It's an inalienable right? There's no way to amend the NY state constitution?

 

[RootDKJ]

Not too drift this thread too much but which are you saying is cheaper? The cost of Central Park is incredibly high. How much revenue would it generate if it was class A office space? It's got to be billions.

$528,783,552,000

 

[catskills]

It's an inalienable right? There's no way to amend the NY state constitution?

It is not an inalienable right. I am just being realistic. Belleayre is so small compared to all the other issues in NY State. If the legislature put forth an amendment on Belleayre to be voted on in November, it would look foolish given all the other significantly more important economic issues the politicians need to be working on.

 

[deadheadskier]

Absolutely.

So,

Do you want to see NH get out of the liquor business to?

Essentially, your general feeling is private business will always trump gov't business in tax revenue generation and providing better jobs with benefits for those who are employed by such businesses.

 

[deadheadskier]

$528,783,552,000

$529 Billion dollars

and people are freaking over Belleyare losing a million a year? :blink:

 

[threecy]

If the legislature put forth an amendment on Belleayre to be voted on in November, it would look foolish given all the other significantly more important economic issues the politicians need to be working on.

It absolutely would look foolish to most of the voters of New York - "we're basically bankrupt yet we're running a ski area?"

 

[x10003q]

It absolutely would look foolish to most of the voters of New York - "we're basically bankrupt yet we're running a ski area?"

If your company is headed down the road to bankrupcy chasing a good price for copy paper is not a good use of your time. It might be better to tackle the bigger problems.
The time it would take to change the NYS constitution is not worth the return and takes time away from way bigger financial problems.

 

[catskills]

It absolutely would look foolish to most of the voters of New York - "we're basically bankrupt yet we're running a ski area?"

In the 1940s when the voters in NY state decided to get into the ski business after World War II it did not look so foolish. Times change. Views change.

IMHO Americans National and State parks is our greatest asset. I would NEVER want to privatize America's National and State parks. I get the feeling you believe the government should not be running anything and we should privatize everything as much as possible.

Just to let you know 70 percent of the fire departments in the USA are volunteer. If you or a loved one have the misfortune to have a motor vehicle accident, there is good chance that the firemen that arrive on scene to cut you out of your motor vehicle with charged hose lines in the ready will be volunteer. There is also a good chance that the EMTs on scene providing initial medical care to get you out of the vehicle and into the ambulance are also volunteers. The is a perfect example of socialism that seems to work well alongside of capitalism.

 

[Harvey]

Where can all these FREE Belleayre lift tickets be found...

Some percentage were pushed out as buy one get one - so I guess technically that's 50% off.