Mittersill Photos (September 2010)

[Smellytele]

The chair and Mittersill terrain is not a direct reason but an indirect reason for the some of the increase. Publicity for the chair and terrain and Cannon marketing is a direct reason.

 

[MadPadraic]

Yet, with the added Mittersill terrain and double chairlift, they couldn't top 2000-2001 (133,656)?

Any idea why 2000-2001 had so many more visiters?

Not at all. As noted in my post you quoted, I did expect a slight bump in skier visits out of curiosity. I find it hard to believe a new lift that only services natural ungroomed snow would result in a bump of 30%. When I skied Mittersill this past season, the lift was empty and always ski on. They could have put a single chair or Castlerock spacing on the double chair and there still would not have been a line.

Also, Tenney closed this season, don't forget about that. Cannon would be a logical alternative for Tenney skiers.

Good point, but I was under the impression that Tenney had been closed for a while?

All I am saying is there were other major variables that can't be controlled in determining where that increase came from. Did Cannon do a better marketing push? I don't know. Is the word finally getting out about how great an area that Tuckerbrook is for youngsters? Beats me. Is the word getting out about better snowmaking and grooming? Did NH residents change from season passes at Loon to Cannon due to the economy being bad? Who knows. But a 30% bump is much too much to be attributed solely to a chair that only services ungroomed expert terrain.

I wonder about the economy too, because 2000-2001 was their last huge year and it was the start of the previous recession. However, this was year three of the lesser depression, and the Cannon visits only started to pickup. This doesn't refute the economy theory at all, just an observation.

My guess is that it is a combination of snow, Mittersill, and related marketing of the two. If I had to guess I'd suggest 70% Mittersill, and 30% marketing of "the cannon effect."

 

[threecy]

My guess is that it is a combination of snow

Second best snowfall in their recorded history.

 

[MadPadraic]

Second best snowfall in their recorded history.

When was the best?

 

[deadheadskier]

Second best snowfall in their recorded history.

So, if any other area in the east added a second mountain increasing the lift serviced terrain by almost 50% (yes, I know, natural snow only) you'd think the amount of natural snow received would play the bigger role in skier visits than the expansion?

Perhaps.......guess we'll see this year if Cannon has an average snowfall year.

All I know is that when I took Ski Area Management classes in college and what I learned when I worked in the industry was that the universally accepted business growth model to increase skier visits centered around two changes; increased terrain / major lift improvements or increase the bed base at the area. It wasn't snowmaking improvements, it wasn't grooming improvements, it wasn't better marketing. I'm not saying those items aren't important, but they simply don't create as much buzz as expanded terrain, vastly improved lifts or increasing your critical mass of visitors through expanded bed base.

Threecy, for a moment, remove the politics of Cannon from your mind. Remove where the funding came from and how the ski area is managed fiscally in terms of having State employees working there with better pay / benefits than employees at Private Run areas. By the way, lost in the hundreds of pages of arguing the privatization of Cannon on this website is the fact that for all the arguments you have for Cannon being better if it's privately run, you certainly don't make many claims that it will be a better place to work. In fact, the opposite is true. You've shown you really don't give a damn about the people that work there and how their jobs would change in a private environment. Never mind the fact that you also don't give a damn about the state residents and seniors who enjoy their benefits skiing there under the current price structure. Your only argument is that the residents of the state will save $1 maybe $2 per year if Cannon is privatized. You are pretty much the Gordon Gekko in the room.

but put all that aside, and let's look at what JD has done with Cannon based upon basic principals of improving Cannon and driving visits to the area.

First, the cards he's dealt:

1. Minimal financial resources comparatively to most major ski resorts in the east. He's not working for a family business or publicly held company with vast resources. Because of this, he couldn't seek private financing for the Mittersill lift. By the way, if he could have, it's pretty much guaranteed that a bank would've insisted on greater financing and that the lift was a 5M HSQ instead of the overpriced 2M double chair.

2. He probably didn't have full say whether the state purchased a used lift versus a new one nor the timetable that resulted in a late install and what you suspect to be a premium cost.

3. He has no ability to increase bed base at the area and increase skier visits that way, whether funded privately or publicly. State Park.


So, what has JD done?

1. Improved snowmaking on the main mountain without overspending by reducing the under utilized midweek Tram operations to free up operating capital to make more snow. Every Cannon skier I know has noticed this as a great improvement.

2. Recognized that offering 75 acres of new lift serviced unique natural snow skiing terrain on Mittersill would create far greater buzz to draw in new business to the area than new compressors, fan guns and brandy new Prinoth groomers for the main mountain. Pushed for the land swap to make it happen.

3. Upgraded the base area facilities to increase visitor comfort.

He pretty much followed the playbook of what a ski area manager should do (whether privately or publicly held doesn't matter) given the cards he was dealt on publicly held and financed facilities to increase business as much as possible.

.......yet the only credit you, Threecy/Gordon Gekko gives is to mother nature.....and having a big snow year. Wonder if anyone else in New England saw a skier visit bump of 23% this winter.

 

[thetrailboss]

A 23% increase is amazing in an industry that sees little if any increase in skiers and riders each year.

 

[threecy]

When was the best?

I don't have the time to dig up the article this morning, but it was a few decades ago.

1. Minimal financial resources comparatively to most major ski resorts in the east.

$600K+ a year in an external revenue stream (not including the additional $1.5M last year) with the ability to finance millions at an interest rate (not even paid by Cannon operating funds) unattainable to any privately owned/operated ski area in New England, and with no collateral.

A 23% increase is amazing in an industry that sees little if any increase in skiers and riders each year.

Cannon recorded a 33% increase in skier visits from 99-00 to 00-01. They didn't retain those skier visits with mediocre winters returned.

 

[Cannonball]

Just a slight side note to this....

I'm not exactly sure how ski areas factor season pass skiers into their skier visits stats. But I would guess that no matter the method, Cannon probably under reports the pass-holders as part of the skier visits. Some Mtns scan passes and that probably goes into the skier visits stat....Cannon doesn't. Some mtns make pass holders pick up a daily ticket, probably to count them towards skier visits....Cannon doesn't.

I put in ~60days on my Cannon pass last year. I'd say that's about average for pass holders (I know many get WAY more). I have no idea how many pass holders there are at Cannon. But even if it's only 500, that's another 30,000 skier visits per year that doesn't get counted by Cannon but probably would by another mtn.

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't have the time to dig up the article this morning, but it was a few decades ago.



$600K+ a year in an external revenue stream (not including the additional $1.5M last year) with the ability to finance millions at an interest rate (not even paid by Cannon operating funds) unattainable to any privately owned/operated ski area in New England, and with no collateral.


Cannon recorded a 33% increase in skier visits from 99-00 to 00-01. They didn't retain those skier visits with mediocre winters returned.

Just as I suspected. You can't put the politics aside and look at the job JD has done in spearheading many upgrades to improve the skier experience at Cannon and make it more competitive in the market.

 

[thetrailboss]

FWIW 2000-2001 was a very good snow year and a year in which Burke Mountain almost did not open. So a lot of folks might have bought passes to Cannon who otherwise would have been at Burke (though not too many folks ski at Burke).

 

[skiberg]

I will second the opinion that JD has been outstanding. TOO outstanding. I hope some big area in the west scoops him up and we go back to some of the old Cannon. At least the lift line part, last year was the worst i can remember. However, be sure to tell everyone you know how poorly managed the mountain is, how cold it is, how icy it is . The lifts break all the time. The food stinks. Go to Loon, its way bettter.

 

[Cannonball]

Cannon Sucks

 

[Glenn]

... Sucks

This thread reached that point at least 12 pages ago. Dear God, please make it stop.

 

[Puck it]

Cannon Sucks

Overrated. Sunapee is much better. Go there!

 

[SIKSKIER]

Fee cheeseburgers at Loon

I will second the opinion that JD has been outstanding. TOO outstanding. I hope some big area in the west scoops him up and we go back to some of the old Cannon. At least the lift line part, last year was the worst i can remember. However, be sure to tell everyone you know how poorly managed the mountain is, how cold it is, how icy it is . The lifts break all the time. The food stinks. Go to Loon, its way bettter.

Now your talking like myself.I selfishly want Cannon to keep those skier visits down but still make money? Huh?Thats why I don't like hearing myself talk.I want it all.

 

[Newpylong]

Overrated. Sunapee is much better. Go there!

I rather watch paint dry than ski at the Okemo of NH, lol.

 

[riverc0il]

DHS: I also suggested that Cannon's second biggest snow year could have been a major reason for the increased skier visit bump. But you singled threecy out. Just curious why I wasn't called out as well?

My reason for asking is that I do believe threecy gets raged on a bit unfairly around here. I was actually even more critical than threecy of the suggestion that the new lift was the reason why the visits increased.

 

[deadheadskier]

Didn't really read your posts, sorry Riv. :lol:

Feel free to respond to my questions of threecy. I'm likely to get a response from you instead of a dodging my questions.

 

[MadPadraic]

This thread reached that point at least 12 pages ago. Dear God, please make it stop.

just don't read it!

 

[Cannonball]

This thread reached that point at least 12 pages ago. Dear God, please make it stop.

1,500 posts over three Cannon Mtn threads! If it's true that "any press is good press" Cannon should have a great season this year.

The irony is that 2 of those threads were started by Threecy, and he added major momentum to all 3 of them. More Cannon talk = more Cannon recognition = higher skier visits = more success = less of a case for leasing.

Now your talking like myself.I selfishly want Cannon to keep those skier visits down but still make money? Huh?Thats why I don't like hearing myself talk.I want it all.

I feel the same way. On the other hand, I'm sure that you (like me) know exactly how to move around Cannon even on a 'crowded' day to minimize lines and find the goods that the rest are passing by. There are laps on Cannon that can take well over an hour to complete . So it's not like you have to jump in line 20 times a day.