The Results are In! AZ Best Resort in the East Condorcet Poll!

[skiersleft]

1.  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe**(Condorcet winner: wins contests with all other choices)
2.  Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 36–35
3.  Sugarbush Resort - Warren**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 45–31, loses to  Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley by 37–31
4.  Jay Peak Resort - Jay**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 46–24, loses to  Sugarbush Resort - Warren by 36–32
5.  Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 50–20, loses to  Jay Peak Resort - Jay by 38–23
6.  Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 47–20, loses to  Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only) by 38–21
7.  Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 49–15, loses to  Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch by 32–24
8.  Killington Ski Resort - Killington**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 52–31, loses to  Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville by 35–32
9.  Saddleback Maine - Rangeley**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 41–9, loses to  Killington Ski Resort - Killington by 29–26
10.  Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 49–8, loses to  Saddleback Maine - Rangeley by 19–18
11.  Sunday River - Newry**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 60–15, loses to  Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington by 28–23
12.  Magic Mountain - Londonderry**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 50–10, loses to  Sunday River - Newry by 30–27
13.  Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 50–8, loses to  Magic Mountain - Londonderry by 23–21
14.  Burke Mountain - East Burke**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 45–9, loses to  Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch by 24–16
15.  Pico Mountain - Killington**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 54–13, loses to  Burke Mountain - East Burke by 27–21
16.  Gore Mountain - North Creek**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 40–3, loses to  Pico Mountain - Killington by 21–14
17.  Loon Mountain - Lincoln**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 62–4, loses to  Pico Mountain - Killington by 37–16
18.  Mount Snow - West Dover**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 65–7, loses to  Loon Mountain - Lincoln by 30–24
19.  Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 63–7, loses to  Mount Snow - West Dover by 33–31
20.  Mont Tremblant**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 36–4, loses to  Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain by 19–14
21.  Okemo Mountain - Ludlow**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 68–8, loses to  Mont Tremblant by 17–16
22.  Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 49–5, loses to  Okemo Mountain - Ludlow by 23–22
23.  Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 48–3, loses to  Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett by 23–19
24.  Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 49–3, loses to  Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods by 20–11
25.  Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 55–4, loses to  Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley by 23–16
26.  Hunter Mountain - Hunter**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 42–4, loses to  Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley by 19–14
27.  Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 45–2, loses to  Hunter Mountain - Hunter by 13–10
28.  Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 39–2, loses to  Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee by 14–10
29.  Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 35–5, loses to  Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center by 14–10
30.  Jiminy Peak - Hancock**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 33–6, loses to  Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont by 14–5
31.  Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 33–1, loses to  Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont by 9–8
32.  Belleayre Mountain - Highmount**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 34–3, loses to  Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury by 14–8
33.  Windham Mountain - Windham**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 34–4, loses to  Belleayre Mountain - Highmount by 12–9
34.  Mount Abram - Greenwood**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 28–3, loses to  Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury by 10–7
35.  Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 42–0, loses to  Mount Abram - Greenwood by 10–4
36.  Black Mountain - Jackson**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 39–1, loses to  Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford by 11–8
37.  Ragged Mountain - Danbury**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 38–2, loses to  Black Mountain - Jackson by 13–10
38.  Shawnee Peak - Bridgton**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 29–2, loses to  Ragged Mountain - Danbury by 9–5
39.  Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 39–2, loses to  Shawnee Peak - Bridgton by 12–7
40. Tied:
 Middlebury Snow Bowl**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 33–2, loses to  Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway by 8–6
 Le Massif**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 31–1, loses to  Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway by 8–7
42.  Mont Sutton**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 32–0, loses to  Middlebury Snow Bowl by 6–3
43.  Wachusett**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 47–1, loses to  Mont Sutton by 8–7
44.  Dartmouth Skiway**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 27–0, loses to  Wachusett by 8–4
45.  Pat's Peak**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 37–0, loses to  Dartmouth Skiway by 8–3
46.  Mont St Anne**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 30–0, loses to  Pat's Peak by 6–2
47.  Mont Orford**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 30–0, loses to  Mont St Anne by 5–4
48.  Holiday Valley**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 29–0, loses to  Mont Orford by 5–4
49.  Bromont**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 26–0, loses to  Holiday Valley by 4–2
50.  Owl's Head**loses to  Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe by 28–0, loses to  Bromont by 4–2

DISCUSS!!!!

 

[snowmonster]

Let the next Stowe v. Loaf debate begin!

Thanks for the poll, skiersleft. This seems to reflect the sentiments here on AZ.

 

[speden]

Could you explain how the votes are translated into the rankings? Do high rank votes count more than lower rank votes?

It looks like some resorts got low ranks because not many AZers live in those areas.

 

[tt431]

Thanks SL. Great poll.

 

[Nick]

Could you explain how the votes are translated into the rankings? Do high rank votes count more than lower rank votes?

It looks like some resorts got low ranks because not many AZers live in those areas.

Like the eastern townships, right?

 

[speden]

Like the eastern townships, right?

I was thinking that some of the Canadian and New York resorts got downgraded somewhat unfairly. The poll didn't ask where people lived, so didn't try to filter out the locality effect. I get the impression most AZers are concentrated in NH, VT, and eastern MA, so resorts outside of that didn't get as many votes, and got more "no opinion" votes. Top line resorts could overcome this, because non-locals are willing to do the long drive, but second tier ones could not.

 

[tt431]

So, how many total votes did the poll get?

 

[Warp Daddy]

Flawed poll design -- no accounting/adjusting for residential /limited travel scope bias

The BEST resort in the EAST is the one you ARE skiing AT THE TIME -- it's all good

 

[MadPadraic]

Did the Loaf win all contests save Stowe? 36-35 isn't exactly statistically significant.

 

[deadheadskier]

Only real surprise to me after being a member of AZ for 5 years and reading about people's travels is Smuggs. Smuggs was in my top 10, but it's not an area that is discussed frequently on the forums, so that was a bit of surprise. Thought Burke would rank a bit higher than Smuggs as it has so many vocal supporters here on AZ.

It appears AZ has good taste. My vote for #1 was Stowe.

 

[mediamogul]

Pico made a strong showing. I was surprised to see it so high in the list.

Berkshire East beat out Jiminy. That's what I like to see.

The top ten are spot on though.

 

[xlr8r]

Top 10 seems about right.

Surprises
Pico 15 Yah!
Ragged 37 C'mon Its better than that

 

[skiersleft]

Could you explain how the votes are translated into the rankings? Do high rank votes count more than lower rank votes?

It looks like some resorts got low ranks because not many AZers live in those areas.

No, high rank votes don't count more than low ranks. The condorcet method figures out how each resort would do when paired head to head against each other resort on the list. The one that prevails over all others in a head to head match up is the condorcet winner. Here's an explanation from the web:
-----------
Summary

Rank the candidates in order (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) of preference. Tie rankings are allowed, which express no preference between the tied candidates.

Comparing each candidate on the ballot to every other, one at a time (pairwise), tally a "win" for the victor in each match.

Sum these wins for all ballots cast. The candidate with the greatest total wins is the one who is the most preferred, and hence the winner of the election.

In the event of a tie, use a resolution method described below.

A particular point of interest is that it is possible for a candidate to be the most preferred overall without being the first preference of any voter. In a sense, the Condorcet method yields the "best compromise" candidate, the one that the largest majority will find to be least disagreeable, even if not their favorite.

Definition

A Condorcet method is a voting system that will always elect the Condorcet winner; this is the candidate whom voters prefer to each other candidate, when compared to them one at a time. This candidate can easily be found by conducting a series of pairwise comparisons, using the basic procedure described in this article. The family of Condorcet methods is also referred to collectively as Condorcet's method. A voting system that always elects the Condorcet winner when there is one is described by electoral scientists as a system that satisfies the Condorcet criterion.

 

[skiersleft]

I was thinking that some of the Canadian and New York resorts got downgraded somewhat unfairly. The poll didn't ask where people lived, so didn't try to filter out the locality effect. I get the impression most AZers are concentrated in NH, VT, and eastern MA, so resorts outside of that didn't get as many votes, and got more "no opinion" votes. Top line resorts could overcome this, because non-locals are willing to do the long drive, but second tier ones could not.

Eastern Townships rated weirdly, but over 30 people ranked them, so the sample size was not much different than Plattekill, for example. It's odd why they ranked so low.

As for geographic bias, I only think Canadian resorts were affected by this, as Riverc0il predicted when the list was being compiled. I disagree regarding NY resorts. Whiteface did very well, making it to the top 10 and beating Loon, Mt Snow, Stratton, Okemo, Tremblant, Bretton Woods, Wildcat, Sunday River, among others. That's an incredibly strong showing. Gore also did very well, coming in at number 16, beating out Mt Snow, Stratton, Tremblant and Okemo. This is much better than it fairs in ski magazines. Deservedly so. Gore is underrated, but AZoners seem to know that. Hunter, Plattekill, Belleayre and Windham all rank where they should, although some might disagree with Plattekill's ranking. Overall, strong showing for the two NY big dogs.

 

[skiersleft]

So, how many total votes did the poll get?

115 votes were cast.

Thanks to everyone who supported the poll, especially Riverc0il for the great suggestion to come up with a list of 50 and allow AZoners to choose which 50 resorts should ultimately he polled. Top 10 is strong.

 

[skiersleft]

Did the Loaf win all contests save Stowe? 36-35 isn't exactly statistically significant.

Yes, the Loaf won all contests except against Stowe. Upon closer inspection, Stowe did fare significantly better than the Loaf, as Stowe usually won its contests against other resorts much more handily than the Loaf. That makes the difference between them more than the 36-35 head to head matchup.

Here's a representative sample of how Stowe won most of its matchups more handily than the Loaf:

Stowe vs Sugarbush -> 45-31 ------- Loaf vs. Sugarbush -> 37-31
Stowe vs. Jay -> 46-24 ---------------Loaf vs Jay -> 36-28
Stowe vs MRG -> 50-20 --------------- Loaf vs MRG -> 40-24
Stowe vs Whiteface -> 49-8 -----------Loaf vs. Whiteface -> 42-10
Stowe vs. Gore -> 40-3 ----------------Loaf vs Gore -> 36-8
Stowe vs Stratton -> 63-7 ----------Loaf vs Stratton -> 57-9
-----------

Let me say that the Loaf did win more handily than Stowe against certain resorts (Killington, for example). Nevertheless, Stowe won more handily more match ups than the Loaf. Therefore, it fared better not only against The Loaf head to head, but also against most of the others. This truly made it number one, although the Loaf was a pretty clear second and did come very close.

 

[k ski patroler]

pico made a strong showing. I was surprised to see it so high in the list.

Berkshire east beat out jiminy. That's what i like to see.

The top ten are spot on though.

pico!!!

 

[thetrailboss]

I am very happy with the results. It shows that we are fairly like minded and not the ones who complete the polls for the magazines!

 

[riverc0il]

Odd to see Smuggs and Saddleback so high and in the top ten. Not because they don't belong there (I certainly had them both quite high) but rather I am surprised enough AZers have skied these mountains to have critical mass in the voting tally (or perhaps voted for them instead of going "No Opinion").

Bizarre to see the Eastern Townships and Massif do so poorly. From what I know of these areas, they will almost definitely be in my top twenty (perhaps even top ten) once I finally get up there. But without having skied them, I put No Opinion. However, they are obviously not bottom of the pack even on paper compared to many other locations in this poll.

The top 25 seem about right for AZ. The second half seems bizarre with many placements suggesting lack of voting due to lack of first hand experience... the voting numbers show this. Middlebury is an alright area but certainly not even close to places like Massif, Sutton, and Orford. Obviously this is a problem of the poll in rating "the best" but it does show "the best" in the opinion of AZers out of places they have experience with (if not voting based on reputation... QC doesn't have much "rep" on these forums though).

 

[AdironRider]

Odd to see Smuggs and Saddleback so high and in the top ten. Not because they don't belong there (I certainly had them both quite high) but rather I am surprised enough AZers have skied these mountains to have critical mass in the voting tally (or perhaps voted for them instead of going "No Opinion").

Bizarre to see the Eastern Townships and Massif do so poorly. From what I know of these areas, they will almost definitely be in my top twenty (perhaps even top ten) once I finally get up there. But without having skied them, I put No Opinion. However, they are obviously not bottom of the pack even on paper compared to many other locations in this poll.

The top 25 seem about right for AZ. The second half seems bizarre with many placements suggesting lack of voting due to lack of first hand experience... the voting numbers show this. Middlebury is an alright area but certainly not even close to places like Massif, Sutton, and Orford. Obviously this is a problem of the poll in rating "the best" but it does show "the best" in the opinion of AZers out of places they have experience with (if not voting based on reputation... QC doesn't have much "rep" on these forums though).

While I might see your point on Smuggs just based on conversations on AZ, you surely jest on Saddleback. That place has been a darling of AZ for a couple years now.

I think the NY resorts did respectable, and Im actually quite surprised the AZ crowd put Whiteface in the top ten, and Gore in the top 20. Do I think Whiteface should have been ranked higher, yeah, but given most peoples lack of experience there, and general opinion of its location and conditions, I figured it would be lower when the scores came out.

Who really cares about the Eastern Township resorts. Sugarloaf is as far as Id be willing to go. If I need a passport to go skiing, its going to be someplace different than Eastern Canada.