Ski 3 - WF, Gore, Bell

[abc]

My predictions:

1) Most Bellayre SPH will choose this slightly more expensive 3 in 1 pass option, and this will ironically hurt Bellayre in 2013/14.

2) The price on the 3 in 1 pass option will be increased for 2014/15 and/or the Bellayre only pass price will be decreased.

Both moves will be done in an effort to "protect" Bellayre.

I can see it'll hurt the sale of Bell-only passes. But why would that hurt Bell?

 

[BenedictGomez]

I can see it'll hurt the sale of Bell-only passes. But why would that hurt Bell?

Giving Belleayre customers (or any businesses customers) more "choice" is not a good thing when all the other choices are better than you - in this case substantially so.

There is a lot of psychology that goes on in the mind of a buyer, and a lot of it isnt always rational. My bet is that many of the same guys who now says:

Gore/Whiteface is better, but it's too far for me to drive and gas is expensive, I'm skiing at Bellayre

are many of the same guys who will next year say:

Gore/Whiteface is free? Well, I guess I can justify the drive/gas skiing there instead of Bellayre now. It's a longer drive, but way better terrain.

Even if the impact results in a 3 or 4 weekend/month Bell skier now being a 1 or 2 weekend/month Bell skier, the impact will be substantial. And my bet is there will be some 3 or 4 weekend/month Bell skiers who will become 0 to 1 weekend/month Bell skiers once they develop a taste for vertical.

 

[abc]

ooops

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Giving Belleayre customers (or any businesses customers) more "choice" is not a good thing when all the other choices are better than you - in this case substantially so.

There is a lot of psychology that goes on in the mind of a buyer, and a lot of it isnt always rational. My bet is that many of the same guys who now says:

Gore/Whiteface is better, but it's too far for me to drive and gas is expensive, I'm skiing at Bellayre

are many of the same guys who will next year say:

Gore/Whiteface is free? Well, I guess I can justify the drive/gas skiing there instead of Bellayre now. It's a longer drive, but way better terrain.

Even if the impact results in a 3 or 4 weekend/month Bell skier now being a 1 or 2 weekend/month Bell skier, the impact will be substantial. And my bet is there will be some 3 or 4 weekend/month Bell skiers who will become 0 to 1 weekend/month Bell skiers once they develop a taste for vertical.

Aren’t you still seeing Bell as a separate entity when nowthey are part of ORDA? ORDA doesn’t want to hurt Bell they want them to do better. I’ve heard that Bell’s revenue is way up under ORDA management. I think you’ll find that ORDA does some major investment in Bell over the next several years just as they have for WF andGore. They want all their venues to have success.

Whether a 3 for 1 passholder goes to WF, Gore or Bell the money still goes into ORDA's coffers.

 

[ScottySkis]

Aren’t you still seeing Bell as a separate entity when nowthey are part of ORDA? ORDA doesn’t want to hurt Bell they want them to do better. I’ve heard that Bell’s revenue is way up under ORDA management. I think you’ll find that ORDA does some major investment in Bell over the next several years just as they have for WF andGore. They want all their venues to have success.

Whether a 3 for 1 passholder goes to WF, Gore or Bell the money still goes into ORDA's coffers.

So why Orda.tell Bell to make snow with season coming to an end. So customers think they be staying open again the latest of players. Okay I will amit that because I want Platty to success and someday look like Elk growing over the years, so I don't think it fair to any other Catskills hill that Orda has no way of going bankruptcy. Maybe Bearpen would be open now with chairs and customers enjoying 2000 feet of trails, NY state to many stupid laws, great city though end rant an now.( slc soon)!

 

[zyk]

Wow... If there was a midweek version of this I would give up my Hunter pass immediately. Gore is not too much farther than Hunter for me, just a bit outside of my comfort zone for a half day trip (which I do regularly at Hunter). Belleayre would be a bit of a sacrifice, but still good for those half days trips.

 

[BenedictGomez]

ORDA doesn’t want to hurt Bell they want them to do better.

Yes, and IMO this was a poor decision if you want to achieve that end. I understand that they think they're helping Belleayre by putting it in a pass with Gore and Whiteface to glom off the other two's much larger popularity, but my belief is it will have an opposite effect in terms of skier visits.

Obviously I could be wrong, but that's how I've wargamed the buyer psychology in my head.

Whether a 3 for 1 passholder goes to WF, Gore or Bell the money still goes into ORDA's coffers.

If the above is truly their mindset, then financially speaking, they've already failed.

I don't think it fair to any other Catskills hill that Orda has no way of going bankruptcy.

Exactly correct.

 

[JimG.]

Aren’t you still seeing Bell as a separate entity when nowthey are part of ORDA? ORDA doesn’t want to hurt Bell they want them to do better. I’ve heard that Bell’s revenue is way up under ORDA management. I think you’ll find that ORDA does some major investment in Bell over the next several years just as they have for WF andGore. They want all their venues to have success.

Whether a 3 for 1 passholder goes to WF, Gore or Bell the money still goes into ORDA's coffers.

If ORDA develops Belleayre as planned and increases vertical to 2000' by adding Highmount to the equation (regardless of annual snowfall), I feel they would improve Belleayre to the point where even if folks cut their skiing there in half and went to the other venues, Belleayre would still pick up more business from other Catskills resorts.

 

[catskills]

I don't think it fair to any other Catskills hill that Orda has no way of going bankruptcy.

As long as ORDA operates in the BLACK no worries about bankruptcy right?

 

[BenedictGomez]

As long as ORDA operates in the BLACK no worries about bankruptcy right?

ROFLMAO

You should go work for the government!

 

[ScottySkis]

As long as ORDA operates in the BLACK no worries about bankruptcy right?

But if you give away free tickets and don't generate money, you should be.bankruptcy like what has happens to many small hills that can't compete with NY state budget.

 

[catskills]

But if you give away free tickets and don't generate money, you should be.bankruptcy like what has happens to many small hills that can't compete with NY state budget.

Yes but then you would be operating in the RED by spending more than you total revenue.

 

[Harvey]

...I want Platty to success...

IMO: Bell giving away 17,000 free lift tickets a year under the DEC hurt Platty a hell of a lot more than the Ski3 Pass ever will.

 

[ScottySkis]

IMO: Bell giving away 17,000 free lift tickets a year under the DEC hurt Platty a hell of a lot more than the Ski3 Pass ever will.

That didn't help any of the Catskills, you get platty yet this season Harvey 44?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yes but then you would be operating in the RED by spending more than you total revenue.

You're starting to get the picture, but not really.

IMO: Bell giving away 17,000 free lift tickets a year under the DEC hurt Platty a hell of a lot more than the Ski3 Pass ever will.

Yeah, that pizzed me off huge. Nothing like a government entity slitting the throats of private businesses.

 

[Harvey]

That didn't help any of the Catskills, you get platty yet this season Harvey 44?

Hoping to get to Plattekill for my 3rd day this season on Sunday.

I don't see how this is bad for Belleayre. Bell was with the DEC and got nothing. While I loathe Tony's flooding the market with free tickets, he had nothing to work with except tickets. I think ORDA will improve Belleayre - slowly but steadily upgrading infrastructure. It's not realistic to expect ORDA to do that and not try to maximize the value that Bell brings.

It looks like all the other pass options are still in play at Bell. So nobody will be turned away. And maybe, a family that takes a week in So or No VT may snag a Ski3 pass and hit Gore or Whiteface instead.

Yea I could be wrong. But the risk seems really low, and the potential upside looks larger to me. If the ski falls next year because of the new pass, they can discontinue it or change the pricing.

 

[ScottySkis]

Hoping to get to Plattekill for my 3rd day this season on Sunday.

Oh man enjoy her Sunday, I be at your mountain Gore Sunday, platty looking great for your return.

 

[JimG.]

If the ski falls next year because of the new pass, they can discontinue it or change the pricing.

Which is what will probably happen anyway.

More reason to jump on the introductory offer.

 

[x10003q]

Which is what will probably happen anyway.

More reason to jump on the introductory offer.

I disagree. I think this will introduce all three mountains to new people. The Hudson Valley and NY metro Gore and WF passholders might be inclined to spend a little more cash for the pass for Catskill day trips to Belleayre. Even when I had season passes for Gore/WF I still hit the Catskills a handful of times per season. Maybe some southern VT skiers who daytrip Belleayre might decide to give Gore and WF a try because of the value.

I also think ORDA gives this pass many years to work. If Belleayre gets the planned upgrades and expansion the pass will have even greater value.

 

[Harvey]

LOL I see that I wrote "if the ski falls" above instead of "sky"...

I also think Ski3 is here to stay.

It would be cool to combo Hunter with Killington. Somehow I don't think it would happen. But it would be cool.