How long do you think it could last?

Vortex · May 18, 2009

I was thinking with the below freezing nights of recent days and all the cold in mid winter....
How long could a "North East" resort stay open? If they make snow from late Oct early November until the last freezing night. Could a resort stay open year round? Last year at the River they had the Huge jump for Simon and that melted in late June.

The loaf years back used a trap and had some snow left in august.

If K use to make a 30 foot glacier and made it to mid June ... could a 50 or 60 foot pile last?

What would be ways to make it last?. Some form of tarp system. Having cooling coils.

Will it ever happen?

If I made it rich... I would give it a try.

eastcoastpowderhound · May 18, 2009

back in the last millenium they used to cut blocks of ice from the lakes in the winter and store them in hay or sawdust to last through the summer... tough to wax for sawdust though.

Vortex · May 18, 2009

Its a start. Put thoss blocks on tarps and blow snow like crazy on top of it.

Geoff · May 18, 2009

Bob R said:
I was thinking with the below freezing nights of recent days and all the cold in mid winter....
How long could a "North East" resort stay open? If they make snow from late Oct early November until the last freezing night. Could a resort stay open year round? Last year at the River they had the Huge jump for Simon and that melted in late June.

The loaf years back used a trap and had some snow left in august.

If K use to make a 30 foot glacier and made it to mid June ... could a 50 or 60 foot pile last?

What would be ways to make it last?. Some form of tarp system. Having cooling coils.

Will it ever happen?

If I made it rich... I would give it a try.

Killington only reliably made it into June when they had upper Downdraft as their spring trail. Superstar is too low and the flat spot in the middle is far too prone to melting since it gets so much sun exposure.

Unless you did as you suggest and put something over the snow to insulate it and reflect away the sun, I doubt you could pile up enough snow to make it much beyond mid-June anywhere in Vermont. It's just not a high enough elevation to freeze at night. You might be able to do something in the Presidentials. You'd need to locate it above 5000 feet, north-facing, and at least a 30 degree face to keep it out of the sun. You'd never be able to get the permits but if you could build a pond and run snowmaking water pipes up to the north face of Mount Washington, you could probably have July skiing in the West Branch Peabody River drainage area. You're really too far from the metro areas for that to be economically viable but you could certainly get up there on the Auto Road or up the cog railway.

Vortex · May 18, 2009

Just like to see someone try to see how it long.

If I had a few extra dollars some year. I might try it in my back yard and see how long. I would be skiing so I would miss many times I could make snow.

I bought that early season pass at Tenney a few years back.It was advertised at 1000 vertical feet from Sept 1st on. When I got there is was just a small patch for a park. I got my money back. " don't want to debate this issue again Just the use of the technology"

Maybe a combination of traditional snowmaking and the snow magic technology. I like fighting with mother nature.

mondeo · May 18, 2009

Brute force method, all you need is capacity. Line SS with 400 fan guns on 200 foot towers and divert the entire flow of whatever body of water you need. I don't know how much snow you'd actually need to make (a lot,) but with enough capacity, by definition, you could operate year round. But if a 30 foot pile only lasts until June, another 30 feet isn't going to help you stay open that much longer, maybe a month. I think my rough calculations in one of the "how wildly optimistic are HS's plans?" threads put snow melt at about a foot per day on average for the summer.

Reflective tarps, rain covers, cooling system for the ground could help make it last longer. Spray mist around the entire area for evaporative cooling. Fencing to help with the wind. Semi-opaque glass roof for when people are actually skiing on it. Build a building around the slope to keep it air conditioned. Move Xanadu to the Vale/K-1 lot area.

Vortex · May 18, 2009

Some good thoughts. I think K even when they had the big piles they stopped making snow at marginal temps late in the season. They also did not blow just on that trail. My thoughts were to just shut down a trail from Oct to May. Make snow every oppurtunity, Open it up when that was all that was left. Keep it covered unless it got cold enoughtto make snow late season. It would be a fun way to burn some money. No different than having a big yacht.

North facing with elevation would help. You would need down loading.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · May 18, 2009

maybe with a 100 foot base...

Highway Star · May 18, 2009

I've covered this topic exensively on K-zone and A-zone.

Still waiting on a valid calculation/model for snow melt from Mondeo.

dmc · May 18, 2009

readjusting snowmaking to trails that could hold late season snow may take aways from the experience during the winter.. where your trying to resurface and not stash...

Highway Star · May 18, 2009

Bob R said:
Some good thoughts. I think K even when they had the big piles they stopped making snow at marginal temps late in the season. They also did not blow just on that trail. My thoughts were to just shut down a trail from Oct to May. Make snow every oppurtunity, Open it up when that was all that was left. Keep it covered unless it got cold enoughtto make snow late season. It would be a fun way to burn some money. No different than having a big yacht.

Along those lines, you'd be better off simply making a HUGE block of SOLID ice on the trail. Roughly 250,000,000 gallons of water would cover Superstar top to bottom with a 50ft iceburg. It would take around a continuous month of half Killington's pump capacity to put that amount of water on the hill. I think it would take a while to melt. Sounds more cost effective because there would be no compressed air used.

Mondeo, want to calculate the energy required for that?

Vortex · May 18, 2009

I saw the caluclation debates on melting. :spin:

That could vary by tarping and possible other snow farming ideas. I use heat bankets to tarp things in the winter. vise versa

I agree DMC it could effect snow for other trails. My money and I make snow damit where I want.:dunce::razz:;-) Hellsgate holds snow as long and any place. We do it in your back yard DMC.

I think the combination of really agressive snow making and the snow magic technology could make it happen. Mythbusters for ski season. Plausible would be my conclusion.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · May 18, 2009

Highway Star said:
Along those lines, you'd be better off simply making a HUGE block of SOLID ice on the trail. Roughly 250,000,000 gallons of water would cover Superstar top to bottom with a 50ft iceburg. It would take around a continuous month of half Killington's pump capacity to put that amount of water on the hill. I think it would take a while to melt. Sounds more cost effective because there would be no compressed air used.

Mondeo, want to calculate the energy required for that?

They should cover Outer Limits..superstar is practically a blue square..OL is a legit black.

dmc · May 18, 2009

Bob R said:
I agree DMC it could effect snow for other trails. My money and I make snow damit where I want.:dunce::razz:;-) Hellsgate hold snow as long and any place. We do it in your back yard DMC.

Hellgate is there right now only because of the resurfacing I mentioned... High traffic trail... Gets a lot of snowmaking "love"..

id prefer it be lower on the mountain... for less hike.. but maybe thats the mystique?

Mapnut · May 18, 2009

One word: Tuckerman's Ravine. Wait, that's two. Surprised no one mentioned that yet. I seem to remember reading years back that after a heavy snow winter and a relatively cool summer, Tuckerman's "almost" retained its snow all through summer. No ski resort is ever going to blow as much snow as Tuckerman's gets, and even that isn't enough. Summers are long and hot, you know. Even Septembers and Octobers are mostly above freezing.

St. Bear · May 18, 2009

Mapnut said:
One word: Tuckerman's Ravine. Wait, that's two. Surprised no one mentioned that yet. I seem to remember reading years back that after a heavy snow winter and a relatively cool summer, Tuckerman's "almost" retained its snow all through summer. No ski resort is ever going to blow as much snow as Tuckerman's gets, and even that isn't enough. Summers are long and hot, you know. Even Septembers and Octobers are mostly above freezing.

This is from last year, but there was some skiing on Tuckerman's in July.

http://www.accuweather.com/mt-news-...t/clarkb/archives/2008/07/summer_skiing_1.asp

mondeo · May 18, 2009

Highway Star said:
Mondeo, want to calculate the energy required for that?

Not really. Not interesting enough.

dmc · May 18, 2009

Mapnut said:
One word: Tuckerman's Ravine. Wait, that's two. Surprised no one mentioned that yet. I seem to remember reading years back that after a heavy snow winter and a relatively cool summer, Tuckerman's "almost" retained its snow all through summer. No ski resort is ever going to blow as much snow as Tuckerman's gets, and even that isn't enough. Summers are long and hot, you know. Even Septembers and Octobers are mostly above freezing.

yes... but there's a long list of people that have died on late season snow... Most from the snowarch collapsing.. it's really dangerous...

SIKSKIER · May 18, 2009

Bob,technically speaking a resort can make snow year round.You remember Tenney blowing shaved ice a couple summers ago.Makes no sense from a financial standpoint and the small run was at best marginal but it can be done.I look at all those ice arenas with all those piles of ice shavings outside in the summer and wonder....???

Vortex · May 18, 2009

I'm with you sikskier. Combine snowmaking from the fall, spring and winter and the snow magic ice technology in the summer..

How long do you think it could last?

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