Hunter death

It was on the local news this morning that a bouncer threw a guy out of a bar, the guy hit his head and died. Any Hunta regulars know the inside skinny on this?

highpeaksdrifter said:

It was on the local news this morning that a bouncer threw a guy out of a bar, the guy hit his head and died. Any Hunta regulars know the inside skinny on this?

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Pretty much what you recounted... Thats it..

Very sad.. Most people I know don't go there.. It's one of he last bastions of the old days...

Eski was telling me this weekend about another fatality that occurred on the mountain. A very good local skier apparently skied right into a tree. Because he was an excellent skier, they suspect he might have had a heart attack. DMC, did I tell it correctly or is there a different version?

Tyrolean_skier said:

Eski was telling me this weekend about another fatality that occurred on the mountain. A very good local skier apparently skied right into a tree. Because he was an excellent skier, they suspect he might have had a heart attack. DMC, did I tell it correctly or is there a different version?

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Thats pretty much the version going around..

In Greene County a bouncer is being charged with the death of a man outside of a bar.

State police say 45-year-old Peter Shine of Oakdale was found dead near the rear door of the Hunter Village Inn.

Shine allegedly got into a fight with another customer. When the fight escalated, police say the bouncer, 27-year-old Thomas Sebald of New Paltz, shoved Shine out of the door onto a small porch.

Shine was discovered a half hour later at the bottom of the porch stairs with head injuries. Seabald is being charged with criminally negligent homicide.

highpeaksdrifter said:

It was on the local news this morning that a bouncer threw a guy out of a bar, the guy hit his head and died. Any Hunta regulars know the inside skinny on this?

Click to expand...

As a former bouncer I think all patrons prone to getting drunk, mouthing off and causing a disturbance :argue: should be required to wear helmets That bouncer will probably wind up on manslaughter charges just for giving the guy the patent final shove gouing thru the door so that he would be able to get the door shut before the guy could turn and come back on him. On top of that...the guy he was throwing out probably swung at him inside.

Bouncers are forever getting charged for assault, excessive force, manslaughter etc by people who have no idea what it is to be a bouncer. What it is...is to basicly be a cop with no weapons defensive or offensive, no vest and to have on average 2 attempts on your life an evening in a busy club. One never hears "a bouncer was almost stabbed in the neck with a broken bottle last night" in the news because it was "almost" and the assailant was most brought under control by driving him headfirst into the ground. :blink:

RossiSkier said:

In Greene County a bouncer is being charged with the death of a man outside of a bar.

State police say 45-year-old Peter Shine of Oakdale was found dead near the rear door of the Hunter Village Inn.

Shine allegedly got into a fight with another customer. When the fight escalated, police say the bouncer, 27-year-old Thomas Sebald of New Paltz, shoved Shine out of the door onto a small porch.

Shine was discovered a half hour later at the bottom of the porch stairs with head injuries. Seabald is being charged with criminally negligent homicide.

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See...exactly. Meanwhile it was actually the club owner who was criminally negligent for having such a set up outside of a door used for forcible ejection. It's not like you can open the door for these people and ask them to step outside :angry:

(Well....you can...if you like fat lips...black eyes and missing teeth)

A friend of mine bounces in Tannersville.. He's the mellowest guy you'd ever want to meet.. But when he's in bouncer mode.. It's downright scarey...

But i watch from behind my drumset as he does his thing and it makes me actually feel safer..

Normally my band only plays until 11PM at this particualr club.. The "Club" crowd deosnt come in until then.. So we really don't have to deal with that element...

Tyrolean_skier said:

Eski was telling me this weekend about another fatality that occurred on the mountain. A very good local skier apparently skied right into a tree. Because he was an excellent skier, they suspect he might have had a heart attack. DMC, did I tell it correctly or is there a different version?

Click to expand...

http://forums.alpinezone.com/viewtopic.php?t=7816

LVNLARG said:

RossiSkier said:

In Greene County a bouncer is being charged with the death of a man outside of a bar.

State police say 45-year-old Peter Shine of Oakdale was found dead near the rear door of the Hunter Village Inn.

Shine allegedly got into a fight with another customer. When the fight escalated, police say the bouncer, 27-year-old Thomas Sebald of New Paltz, shoved Shine out of the door onto a small porch.

Shine was discovered a half hour later at the bottom of the porch stairs with head injuries. Seabald is being charged with criminally negligent homicide.

Click to expand...

See...exactly. Meanwhile it was actually the club owner who was criminally negligent for having such a set up outside of a door used for forcible ejection. It's not like you can open the door for these people and ask them to step outside :angry:

(Well....you can...if you like fat lips...black eyes and missing teeth)

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Now I don't know any of these facts..and am not condoning anyone's behavior one way or the other..But...don't you think that this Bouncer knew or should have known that there was an elevated porch right outside the door he was forcibly ejecting this guy out of?

LVNLARG, all respect to bouncers from me as a club DJ who prior to doing the DJ thing was dancing away twice a week doing my own thing. but to be frank, i think even you've gotta admit there are a few bouncers out there on a testosterone kick and power trip. i would definitely say not a huge amount, but enough that it clouds the waters slightly without knowing the specifics. bouncers have a tough job because they are asked to do one thing by the club that is sometimes at odds with what may or may not be exactly legal. the amount of physical force that can be used legally definitely seems like a grey area to me. this could have been a freak accident or too much force, impossible to know and it is now for the jury to decide.

quite frankly, shame on the bar tenders for serving a guy that should have been cut off. shame on the club for not promoting drunken awareness for the wait staff. last thing a club wants to do is refuse to serve a patron buying lots of drinks. sometimes certain folks are just looking for trouble, but that one additional drink can be the difference between looking for it and doing it.

riverc0il said:

quite frankly, shame on the bar tenders for serving a guy that should have been cut off. shame on the club for not promoting drunken awareness for the wait staff.

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How do you know this was the case?

touche, shame on me for the assumption.

riverc0il said:

LVNLARG, all respect to bouncers from me as a club DJ who prior to doing the DJ thing was dancing away twice a week doing my own thing. but to be frank, i think even you've gotta admit there are a few bouncers out there on a testosterone kick and power trip. i would definitely say not a huge amount, but enough that it clouds the waters slightly without knowing the specifics. bouncers have a tough job because they are asked to do one thing by the club that is sometimes at odds with what may or may not be exactly legal. the amount of physical force that can be used legally definitely seems like a grey area to me. this could have been a freak accident or too much force, impossible to know and it is now for the jury to decide.

quite frankly, shame on the bar tenders for serving a guy that should have been cut off. shame on the club for not promoting drunken awareness for the wait staff. last thing a club wants to do is refuse to serve a patron buying lots of drinks. sometimes certain folks are just looking for trouble, but that one additional drink can be the difference between looking for it and doing it.

Click to expand...

Sure he knew it was there...but he didn't put it there....making it not his fault...but the club owners (And I'm not bouncer biased...I now own clubs..not bounce in them). Would you rather he went thru the door with the guy and danced a wresting ballet at the top of the stairs with him possibly killing them both? The only thing that guy did wrong was take the job knowing that step was there...and not all bouncers are bright enough to for-see that outcome...but all club owners and their insurers should be.

This totally burns me up :angry: as i've seen it repeated time...and time again....Bouncer as a fall guy. Perhaps if the bouncer wasn't there... this guy...and OTHERS would have died inside. Perhaps this guy even sustained his life ending injury inside at the hands of others (and that might not come out in court if the bouncer can't afford a good defence). What burns me the absolute most is this: The bouncer goes hands on with a guy to remove him because he was fighting and injuring people....risking his neck for the sake of others and doing his assigned job. Same trouble causer on the street only has to look/step menacingly towards police and they can taze him. If his life was ended in that instance due to arrythmia caused by the taze the effect on the tazing officer would have been a one month paid vacation to "recover"....not being locked up like a commen criminal. Yes...I agree 100% there are bouncers out there all over the place "putting a little extra" into forced ejections... and if the establishment is reputable...they are given their walking papers by mangement before they cause a civil suit. Bouncers good or bad however ALL give the trouble causer that extra shove thru the door though as it is an absolute NECESSITY to give you the time to get the door shut and protect yourself. If you don't want that shove that might do you great harm....then don't cause trouble. Guy played his cards and lost.

bvibert said:

Tyrolean_skier said:

Eski was telling me this weekend about another fatality that occurred on the mountain. A very good local skier apparently skied right into a tree. Because he was an excellent skier, they suspect he might have had a heart attack. DMC, did I tell it correctly or is there a different version?

Click to expand...

http://forums.alpinezone.com/viewtopic.php?t=7816

Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't have time to read all the threads in this forum so I must have missed that one.

LVNLARG said:

riverc0il said:

LVNLARG, all respect to bouncers from me as a club DJ who prior to doing the DJ thing was dancing away twice a week doing my own thing. but to be frank, i think even you've gotta admit there are a few bouncers out there on a testosterone kick and power trip. i would definitely say not a huge amount, but enough that it clouds the waters slightly without knowing the specifics. bouncers have a tough job because they are asked to do one thing by the club that is sometimes at odds with what may or may not be exactly legal. the amount of physical force that can be used legally definitely seems like a grey area to me. this could have been a freak accident or too much force, impossible to know and it is now for the jury to decide.

quite frankly, shame on the bar tenders for serving a guy that should have been cut off. shame on the club for not promoting drunken awareness for the wait staff. last thing a club wants to do is refuse to serve a patron buying lots of drinks. sometimes certain folks are just looking for trouble, but that one additional drink can be the difference between looking for it and doing it.

Click to expand...

Sure he knew it was there...but he didn't put it there....making it not his fault...but the club owners (And I'm not bouncer biased...I now own clubs..not bounce in them). Would you rather he went thru the door with the guy and danced a wresting ballet at the top of the stairs with him possibly killing them both? The only thing that guy did wrong was take the job knowing that step was there...and not all bouncers are bright enough to for-see that outcome...but all club owners and their insurers should be.

This totally burns me up :angry: as i've seen it repeated time...and time again....Bouncer as a fall guy. Perhaps if the bouncer wasn't there... this guy...and OTHERS would have died inside. Perhaps this guy even sustained his life ending injury inside at the hands of others (and that might not come out in court if the bouncer can't afford a good defence). What burns me the absolute most is this: The bouncer goes hands on with a guy to remove him because he was fighting and injuring people....risking his neck for the sake of others and doing his assigned job. Same trouble causer on the street only has to look/step menacingly towards police and they can taze him. If his life was ended in that instance due to arrythmia caused by the taze the effect on the tazing officer would have been a one month paid vacation to "recover"....not being locked up like a commen criminal. Yes...I agree 100% there are bouncers out there all over the place "putting a little extra" into forced ejections... and if the establishment is reputable...they are given their walking papers by mangement before they cause a civil suit. Bouncers good or bad however ALL give the trouble causer that extra shove thru the door though as it is an absolute NECESSITY to give you the time to get the door shut and protect yourself. If you don't want that shove that might do you great harm....then don't cause trouble. Guy played his cards and lost.

Click to expand...

I've been skiing in the Northeast for over 35 years and drinking in places like the HVI just as long. I've seen and been in my share of bar fights during that time. Most bouncers are juiced up, morons or kids who don't know any better or can't find honest work. At 27 and a teacher, no less this huy should have lnown better, his LIFE will suck as result of this, was his $10 an hour job worth it??? The owner , the bartenders and the bouncers who make their money off serving people are all just as responsible as the guy the guy who gets drunk. This is the law, as we all know from DWI cases. Read the news, this guy killed the patron by crushing his windpipe, end of story. Would you want this guy teaching your kids??? The best that can come of this is if that shithole HVI should be shut down. It's not just me saying that it's most of the respectable business owners in Hunter !!!

I've never been to the HVI..now I gotta go have a look next week..should be quite mid week.

As a resident of the Village of Hunter - I cringe whenever I see this thread pop up..

Orville Slutsky(HM Owner) and some other town people are pushing for a midnight bar closing law..

I'm against it.. It's a ski town... I want people to party and have a good time..

Unfortunately I'm away and cant make the Town meetings anymore.. I'd love to know whats being said..

As someone who used to be a bouncer, it's a tough job. I really don't know anything about this situation as I've not had time to read up on it. I can tell you people are (typically) jerks when they're drinking in a bar. They give the bar tenders, other people and bouncers a hard time. The problem is, as has been mentioned here, most bouncers are young and feel they're allowed to crack some heads. I was always VERY careful when I bounced. NEVER drank until everyone was gone. Tried not to be too forceful but forceful enough (tought to do sometimes). It's not an easy thing to do and that's part of why I stopped when I did (this was some time ago).

I knew, at the time, I really had no protection should I really do harm to someone. You're supposed to be the, "cop," but you aren't a cop. Forget about weapons and other things, you just don't have a right to do things to other people like a cop does in the wrong situations. Makes it even tougher to do the job.

You hear of people being killed in bar fights all of the time. It's really a shame. Most of the time it has something to do with someone falling and hitting their head. When you think about it, it can just as easily happen to you or one of your friends. Is it REALLY worth possibly dying over because somone took your chair or looked at your girlfriend????

tuckermanbill said:

I've been skiing in the Northeast for over 35 years and drinking in places like the HVI just as long. I've seen and been in my share of bar fights during that time. Most bouncers are juiced up, morons or kids who don't know any better or can't find honest work. At 27 and a teacher, no less this huy should have lnown better, his LIFE will suck as result of this, was his $10 an hour job worth it??? The owner , the bartenders and the bouncers who make their money off serving people are all just as responsible as the guy the guy who gets drunk. This is the law, as we all know from DWI cases. Read the news, this guy killed the patron by crushing his windpipe, end of story. Would you want this guy teaching your kids??? The best that can come of this is if that shithole HVI should be shut down. It's not just me saying that it's most of the respectable business owners in Hunter !!!

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With those facts it just proves the guy was likely "one of the good ones". We often have teachers as bouncers and bartenders as they're interested in making some extra money to try pay off student loans. They're not able to make enough to be able to go out and get drunk at night like yourself due to their chosen RESPECTABLE PROFESSION.

By your own admission... you sound like just the kind of trailer trash that we have to deal with. You go out...get drunk...start a fight....and then it's our fault your head got bumped while you were fighting security all the way out the door. Nothings ever your fault...it's everyone elses fault for just letting you be your socially unaccepted self. You're just the type to sue over the bump on your head that you caused by first: being an asshole causing you to have to be asked to leave....followed by not complying with the request to leave. Newflash...if you wern't being an asshole in the first place you wouldn't have been asked to leave and if you had complied with that request by agents of the property that you were then in trespass of.... you wouldn't have received the bump (which only occured by your own doing due to your wrestling violently making your movements uncontrolable) while attempting to assault the agents of the property that you were IN illegal trespass of!

The guy who got kiled was 47 ...who the hell gets into barfights at 47....TRAILERTRASH....that's who! I've been to nightclubs all over the world...often gotten drunk....and NEVER ONCE even been looked at sideways by a bouncer. Why ? Because I'm a reasonable, logical person who KNOWS HOW TO BEHAVE HIMSELF IN PUBLIC. If you're being thrown out of a bar...man....you really gotta take a good hard look at yourself. To be thrown out of a bar ...you have to be the WORST of a not so savory bunch of people to begin with. Being thrown out also means that people in a highly tollerant environment find you behavior so unacceptable they're not even willing to TAKE YOUR MONEY to put up with it.

I don't even need to know the intricate facts of this case. The basic details speak for themselves. I've seen it over and over again and know exactly what happened without even asking. What is happening is a PERVASION of justice and disgusts me to no end. I, for one, (and hope to god there are others here who feel similarily) am sick to my stomache to live in a society where people who have only 1 goal in life: "To get on the Jerry Springer Show" can actually have their twisted stories and lies heard and given merrit in court. These people... who have incomes comprised solely of the proceeds of various bullshit lawsuits SHOULD NOT be given the time of day by the legal justice system. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: