Audi

[campgottagopee]

It would be that simple. Just think of what it would do to american morale which is as low as i've ever seen it. Talking to you guys makes me think your a bunch of those selfish vermonters who want to secede from the union.
GM succeeds means america succeeds. GM fails means america enters a depression.
I am not in the UAW i am not even pro union. But the fact of the matter is gm and ford are making the best cars out there now and the deals out there can't be beat. Your paying for the bailout anyway because obama understands how important the big three are to the economy and national defense. yes i read consumer reports apparently you haven't recently.
On this i'm out, good day gentlemen and think before you buy. There are good american alternatives to the axis powers.
bvibert I will buy you a sam adams next year at sundown. :flag:
Unless thats frowned upon in the complex social dynamics of sundown. LMAO

HS by buying "the deal" you'll just be adding fuel to the fire. For too many years the Big 3 forced the market by whoring out their product instead of selling quality. Get it??? Don't go for the deal-----you truly get what you pay for.

 

[Geoff]

HS by buying "the deal" you'll just be adding fuel to the fire. For too many years the Big 3 forced the market by whoring out their product instead of selling quality. Get it??? Don't go for the deal-----you truly get what you pay for.

It's not so much the quality. Build quality has improved dramatically over the last few decades. The problem is that the Big 3 mostly build the wrong cars. Big metal SUVs & pickup trucks. Really boring sedans. A modern Buick is quite reliable but I'd go out of my mind driving one every day.

 

[Warp Daddy]

H'mm the dinosaurs are dying hear them !!

 

[thorski]

QUOTE=Geoff;413194]It's not so much the quality. Build quality has improved dramatically over the last few decades. The problem is that the Big 3 mostly build the wrong cars. Big metal SUVs & pickup trucks. Really boring sedans. A modern Buick is quite reliable but I'd go out of my mind driving one every day.[/QUOTE]

People where buying them big suv's and they still are. The chevy volt is coming but the pee guy is rooting for the other team to win. I would buy his dog a beer but not him. :lol:
I love pick up trucks. How else am i gonna get er done.
I'm gonna make a sticker for mine
Eating tundras and shi**ing out titans.

 

[thorski]

H'mm the dinosaurs are dying hear them !!

The dinosaurs are america.
If they die so will we fool.

 

[snoseek]

Hmmmm...maybe I should trade in my Civic for a Neon or better yet Cobalt. I've always dreamed of rocking a Cobalt, plus I'm sure it will last 4eva:roll:

 

[Warp Daddy]

The dinosaurs are america.
If they die so will we fool.

America is changing and will always CONTINUE to EVOLVE that's not conjecture THAT's FACT

Folks who Adapt and deal with this condition will be better able to make it .

Those that will MAKE it are those WILLING , and ABLE to ADAPT to evolving realities

No fool here dude!!

As an economist with 4 decades experience we planned our financials wisely, understand the nature of business cycles and implemented a VERY safe strategy over 4 decades .As a result have not lost one dime in this latest meltdown at all .Thus we are NOT dependent on the UAW or Big 3 to survive and can exercise many options depending on the situation ----------------doing VERY well thank you

And BTW as far as the current reality it's NOT if they die, they are gasping for their LAST breath my friend .and will need to undergo SYSTEMIC change to make it happen . I hope they do make it, BUT their fate UNDER a CAPITALISTIC system should be IN THEIR hands NOT on the TAXPAYER's nickel

 

[billski]

Didn't lose my job. I'm good.
Ford and chevy are making better vehicles then the imports now, but if you want to be on the wrong side of history just continue hating your own country.
And before you say "I don't hate my country" tell me again what kind of cars you think suck?
Big buisness runs the world-soon we won't have any.
Foreign investment is great. where does the profit go? to make a road in america that plays a song when you drive over it?

thorski,
How old are you anyways? Do you remember the past?

First of all, I don't see how you can construe not buying American as hating your country? There are too many economic issues in play here.
What brand is your stereo/video/TV components? Back in the 70s and 80s when American manufacturers were still in that business, my parents and I continued to buy American TVs. We had nothing but trouble with them, they were behind the times with technology and features and burned out in 5 years. The Japanese embarked on Total quality management (do a little reading, you'll see American quality guru W. Authur Deming) taught the Japanese auto manufacturers the rules) but the American little three auto mfrs. chose to ignore them. The domestic manufacturers had a self-interest strategy of forcing us to to buy a new car, for their own benefit. I'm sick of being manipulated. In three years the quarter panels and door panels would rot out. If you were lucky enough to hold onto it for six years, you got frame rot. Would you trust a kid who always did bad deeds? Why should I trust the motor city now? They've known about this problem for 30 years. It's only been the last five years that they finally turned the quality around. The damage has been done, now upon generations of car owners.

My sister stuck with American over the past 30 years when I bailed. She's had nothing but troubles. As late as two years ago her Trailblazer had to be fully replaced under the NY lemon law. Just does nothing but reinforce my position. there is way too much arrogance remaining in Detroit.

I spoke previously about my encounter in 1981 with the Director of body design for the Corvette both at his home and in the Warren, Michigan GM design center. He was too worried about jobs and didn't want to hear about longevity beyond 3 years. He was so proud of hiring uneducated, non-college grads to design his cars. As a BSEE grad, I was aghast. I knew right there and then that this was an industry in crisis and it galvanized my decision never to buy domestic again. The problem is that they simply for the most part (with few exceptions) are incapable of taking a broad, worldwide view of the situation. This isn't stuff I read in a book. I experienced this crap.

Me and Warp (and others lived through the terrible 60s and 70s when having a rescue kit in your car was imperative) were always getting call to help come rescue another broken down friend or relative in a Ford, GM or Chrysler. Let me tell you about the gas tank that FELL OUT of my Ford sometime or the Chevy engine that broke free from the moto rmounts, slid and dropped the drive shaft ONTO THE HIGHWAY at 60mph!!!! I, personally would never keep a car past 60K miles because that is when major reliability problems happened. I sunk 10's of K$ into repairs on American cars. And lost hundreds of hours of personal time, and pay when the car breaks down on the way to work. Don't you think that left an indelible impression on me??? Win me back, but start working on it. Give me a domestic car free of charge for six months to drive and then maybe I'll change my mind. Hey, use the freaking bailout money for THAT!

Look, when you've been through as much hassle as I have been with American cars, you are going to have to work DAMN HARD to win me back. I don't believe you understand withat DAMN HARD means. Giving me the marketing line that quality is better, showing be JD Power surveys isn't enough. If GM Chrysler or Ford expects me to plunk down 20 or 25K on a car with the promise of "trust me", well, you can forget about that. DAMN HARD means giving me a quality experience without risk to my pocketbook. I KNOW I won't be sinking bucks every month into my Toyota. You have a good experience? Well, congratulations. I know of hundreds who didn't.

Why don't they take some of that bailout money and put it into extended Warranty and Service programs that come standard with the car? Audi did when it had the PR disaster with the 5000 and lost over 30% of their market. Smart business move. All standard service included for first 50K or 3 years. Tylenol did when they had the lacing incident. They gave away product for cripes sake, and wond their reputation back.

If their quality is so damn good, then make it a 5 year 120K mile bumper to bumper warranty standard. Why not? It won't cost them a penny, right?

I have no interest in buying from a company that puts its own self-interest first. I have no interest in seeing the pockets of employees lined with over-the-top benefits plans. I used to live in a town with a GM manufacturing facility in nearby Rochester NY and knew many people who worked there. I NEVER had the kinds of benefit and retirement plans they got. They are still getting benefits way beyond what I receive. No thanks, I think I'll keep some of that money for my own retirement account.

If you want to talk longevity, My 96 Avalon has 235K miles on it and my daughter still drives it to school everyday. It suffered long ski winter trips, had minor fender benders that were cheap to repair and didn't have to keep going back to the shop for the same problem. Like you, it's only be standard maintenance expense. 150K miles is nothing to brag about; that's ordinary for me. We usually keep our cars for at least 10 years at at least 180K miles. 150K is no proof point; it's just treading water, following behind the back, not ahead of it.

Don't get me going about handouts. My university just sent me a solicitation telling me "don't miss the chance to contribute". Huh? Like this is my obligation? No thanks GM. Get back to work. I know there are are handful of folks at GM with the work ethic and customer first ethic, but the rest are still riding the gravy train. That handful is not being allowed to rise. throw out the damn unions please.

If you want to talk economics, often this is the largest decision factor. Foreign companies worked continually to keep costs low. My Avalon was cheaper than the domestics.

We need to re-establish our American work ethic and our customer-first ethic. Stop thinking of me-first. Do the right thing and rewards will follow.

And please, think twice before you start talking about isolationist policies. If you were a good history student, then you recall how our 1914 and 1938 isolationist policies got us into trouble.

I think we as a country rested on our laurels as an economic force for too long. We all got too lazy and expected entitlements. The competition came in and we were sleeping int he hammock. Wake up, get to work America, and start working HARD again. Then we as a nation can rise back tot he top of the economic heap and we can be proud of our nation again.

 

[Warp Daddy]

thorski,
How old are you anyways? Do you remember the past?

First of all, I don't see how you can construe not buying American as hating your country? There are too many economic issues in play here.
What brand is your stereo/video/TV components? Back in the 70s and 80s when American manufacturers were still in that business, my parents and I continued to buy American TVs. We had nothing but trouble with them, they were behind the times with technology and features and burned out in 5 years. The Japanese embarked on Total quality management (do a little reading, you'll see American quality gurus taught the Japanese auto manufacturers the rules, but the American little three auto mfrs. chose to ignore them.

Me and warp (and others lived through the terrible 60s and 70s when having a rescue kit in your car was imperative. We were always getting call to help come rescue another broken down friend or relative in a Ford, GM or Chrysler. Let me tell you about the gas tank that FELL OUT of my Ford sometime or the Chevy engine that broke free from the moto rmounts, slid and dropped the drive shaft ONTO THE HIGHWAY at 60mph!!!! I, personally would never keep a car past 60K miles because that is when major reliability problems happened. I sunk 10's of K$ into repairs on American cars. And lost hundreds of hours of personal time, and pay when the car breaks down on the way to work. Don't you think that left an indelible impression on me??? Win me back, but start working on it. Give me a domestic car free of charge for six months to drive and then maybe I'll change my mind. Hey, use the freaking bailout money for THAT!

Look, when you've been through as much hassle as I have been with American cars, you are going to have to work DAMN HARD to win me back. I don't believe you understand withat DAMN HARD means. Giving me the marketing line that quality is better, showing be JD Power surveys isn't enough. If GM Chrysler or Ford expects me to plunk down 20 or 25K on a car with the promise of "trust me", well, you can forget about that. DAMN HARD means giving me a quality experience without risk to my pocketbook. I KNOW I won't be sinking bucks every month into my Toyota. You have a good experience? Well, congratulations. I know of hundreds who didn't.

Why don't they take some of that bailout money and put it into extended Warranty and Service programs that come standard with the car? Audi did when it had the PR disaster with the 5000 and lost over 30% of their market. Smart business move. All standard service included for first 50K or 3 years. Tylenol did when they had the lacing incident. They gave away product for cripes sake, and wond their reputation back.

If their quality is so damn good, then make it a 5 year 120K mile bumper to bumper warranty standard. Why not? It won't cost them a penny, right?

I have no interest in buying from a company that puts its own self-interest first. I have no interest in seeing the pockets of employees lined with over-the-top benefits plans. I used to live in a town with a GM manufacturing facility in nearby Rochester NY and knew many people who worked there. I NEVER had the kinds of benefit and retirement plans they got. They are still getting benefits way beyond what I receive. No thanks, I think I'll keep some of that money for my own retirement account.

If you want to talk longevity, My 96 Avalon has 235K miles on it and my daughter still drives it to school everyday. It suffered long ski winter trips, had minor fender benders that were cheap to repair and didn't have to keep going back to the shop for the same problem. Like you, it's only be standard maintenance expense.

Don't get me going about handouts. My university just sent me a solicitation telling me "don't miss the chance to contribute". Huh? Like this is my obligation? No thanks GM. Get back to work. I know there are are handful of folks at GM with the work ethic and customer first ethic, but the rest are still riding the gravy train. That handful is not being allowed to rise. throw out the damn unions please.

If you want to talk economics, often this is the largest decision factor. Foreign companies worked continually to keep costs low. My Avalon was cheaper than the domestics.

We need to re-establish our American work ethic and our customer-first ethic. Stop thinking of me-first. Do the right thing and rewards will follow.

And please, think twice before you start talking about isolationist policies. If you were a good history student, then you recall how our 1914 and 1938 isolationist policies got us into trouble.

I think we as a country rested on our laurels as an economic force for too long. We all got too lazy and expected entitlements. The competition came in and we were sleeping int he hammock. Wake up, get to work America, and start working HARD again. Then we as a nation can rise back tot he top of the economic heap and we can be proud of our nation again.

Well said sir !!!!!!!!!!

 

[campgottagopee]

It's not so much the quality. Build quality has improved dramatically over the last few decades. The problem is that the Big 3 mostly build the wrong cars. Big metal SUVs & pickup trucks. Really boring sedans. A modern Buick is quite reliable but I'd go out of my mind driving one every day.

I'll give you "their" quality has improved, BUT it's not on par with the "imports", it just isn't. If it was they would still be leasing instead of puking incentive $$$$$ and coming out with all these "if you lose your job" gimicks. Quality sells.

 

[campgottagopee]

[/QUOTE]

People where buying them big suv's and they still are. The chevy volt is coming but the pee guy is rooting for the other team to win. I would buy his dog a beer but not him. :lol:
I love pick up trucks. How else am i gonna get er done.
I'm gonna make a sticker for mine
Eating tundras and shi**ing out titans.[/QUOTE]


Save you money my friend, sounds to me like youo'll need it.

 

[thorski]

You guys have a good time in Versailles i'm heading up to K.

 

[campgottagopee]

thorski,
How old are you anyways? Do you remember the past?

First of all, I don't see how you can construe not buying American as hating your country? There are too many economic issues in play here.
What brand is your stereo/video/TV components? Back in the 70s and 80s when American manufacturers were still in that business, my parents and I continued to buy American TVs. We had nothing but trouble with them, they were behind the times with technology and features and burned out in 5 years. The Japanese embarked on Total quality management (do a little reading, you'll see American quality guru W. Authur Deming) taught the Japanese auto manufacturers the rules) but the American little three auto mfrs. chose to ignore them. The domestic manufacturers had a self-interest strategy of forcing us to to buy a new car, for their own benefit. I'm sick of being manipulated. In three years the quarter panels and door panels would rot out. If you were lucky enough to hold onto it for six years, you got frame rot. Would you trust a kid who always did bad deeds? Why should I trust the motor city now? They've known about this problem for 30 years. It's only been the last five years that they finally turned the quality around. The damage has been done, now upon generations of car owners.

My sister stuck with American over the past 30 years when I bailed. She's had nothing but troubles. As late as two years ago her Trailblazer had to be fully replaced under the NY lemon law. Just does nothing but reinforce my position. there is way too much arrogance remaining in Detroit.

I spoke previously about my encounter in 1981 with the Director of body design for the Corvette. He was too worried about jobs and didn't want to hear about longevity beyond 3 years. He was so proud of hiring uneducated, non-college grads to design his cars. As a BSEE grad, I was aghast. I knew right there and then that this was an industry in crisis and it galvanized my decision never to buy domestic again. The problem is that they simply for the most part (with few exceptions) are incapable of taking a broad, worldwide view of the situation. This isn't stuff I read in a book. I experienced this crap.

Me and Warp (and others lived through the terrible 60s and 70s when having a rescue kit in your car was imperative) were always getting call to help come rescue another broken down friend or relative in a Ford, GM or Chrysler. Let me tell you about the gas tank that FELL OUT of my Ford sometime or the Chevy engine that broke free from the moto rmounts, slid and dropped the drive shaft ONTO THE HIGHWAY at 60mph!!!! I, personally would never keep a car past 60K miles because that is when major reliability problems happened. I sunk 10's of K$ into repairs on American cars. And lost hundreds of hours of personal time, and pay when the car breaks down on the way to work. Don't you think that left an indelible impression on me??? Win me back, but start working on it. Give me a domestic car free of charge for six months to drive and then maybe I'll change my mind. Hey, use the freaking bailout money for THAT!

Look, when you've been through as much hassle as I have been with American cars, you are going to have to work DAMN HARD to win me back. I don't believe you understand withat DAMN HARD means. Giving me the marketing line that quality is better, showing be JD Power surveys isn't enough. If GM Chrysler or Ford expects me to plunk down 20 or 25K on a car with the promise of "trust me", well, you can forget about that. DAMN HARD means giving me a quality experience without risk to my pocketbook. I KNOW I won't be sinking bucks every month into my Toyota. You have a good experience? Well, congratulations. I know of hundreds who didn't.

Why don't they take some of that bailout money and put it into extended Warranty and Service programs that come standard with the car? Audi did when it had the PR disaster with the 5000 and lost over 30% of their market. Smart business move. All standard service included for first 50K or 3 years. Tylenol did when they had the lacing incident. They gave away product for cripes sake, and wond their reputation back.

If their quality is so damn good, then make it a 5 year 120K mile bumper to bumper warranty standard. Why not? It won't cost them a penny, right?

I have no interest in buying from a company that puts its own self-interest first. I have no interest in seeing the pockets of employees lined with over-the-top benefits plans. I used to live in a town with a GM manufacturing facility in nearby Rochester NY and knew many people who worked there. I NEVER had the kinds of benefit and retirement plans they got. They are still getting benefits way beyond what I receive. No thanks, I think I'll keep some of that money for my own retirement account.

If you want to talk longevity, My 96 Avalon has 235K miles on it and my daughter still drives it to school everyday. It suffered long ski winter trips, had minor fender benders that were cheap to repair and didn't have to keep going back to the shop for the same problem. Like you, it's only be standard maintenance expense. 150K miles is nothing to brag about; that's ordinary for me. We usually keep our cars for at least 10 years at at least 180K miles. 150K is no proof point; it's just treading water, following behind the back, not ahead of it.

Don't get me going about handouts. My university just sent me a solicitation telling me "don't miss the chance to contribute". Huh? Like this is my obligation? No thanks GM. Get back to work. I know there are are handful of folks at GM with the work ethic and customer first ethic, but the rest are still riding the gravy train. That handful is not being allowed to rise. throw out the damn unions please.

If you want to talk economics, often this is the largest decision factor. Foreign companies worked continually to keep costs low. My Avalon was cheaper than the domestics.

We need to re-establish our American work ethic and our customer-first ethic. Stop thinking of me-first. Do the right thing and rewards will follow.

And please, think twice before you start talking about isolationist policies. If you were a good history student, then you recall how our 1914 and 1938 isolationist policies got us into trouble.

I think we as a country rested on our laurels as an economic force for too long. We all got too lazy and expected entitlements. The competition came in and we were sleeping int he hammock. Wake up, get to work America, and start working HARD again. Then we as a nation can rise back tot he top of the economic heap and we can be proud of our nation again.

+1

 

[deadheadskier]

I have no interest in seeing the pockets of employees lined with over-the-top benefits plans. I used to live in a town with a GM manufacturing facility in nearby Rochester NY and knew many people who worked there. I NEVER had the kinds of benefit and retirement plans they got. They are still getting benefits way beyond what I receive. No thanks, I think I'll keep some of that money for my own retirement account.

Good friend of my father's in Florida retired from GM after 30 years as not middle management and certainly not board level, standard VP level manager. He receives 120K a year in retirement, which represents roughly 70% of his final salary, full health benefits AND a top of the line Cadillac EVERY year. So, essentially he receives more by not working than he did working. Even he understands why the companies are on the verge of failure. Mind you, this individual was not part of the UAW. It's not only union workers that are bancrupting these companies like many of the talking white collars begging for tax money would lead you to believe.


I'll stick with Hyundai thank you very much. For the money, I think they are the best built cars on the road today. I'll put my 07 Sonata up against an Accord or Camry with the same trim any day of the week; never mind a Malibu or Fusion. My father recently traded in his Infinity M35X for a Genesis and the Hyundai blows away the Infinity in every way measurable and cost him 15 grand less to buy. His warranty ran out on the Infinity, he heard my testament, saw the super bowl commercial and decided to check one out and was instantly converted. The 10 year 100K warranties that come with them aren't a sales gimick to get you threw the door. It's a testament to the quality of the vehicle.

so, a Korean car built in a factory on American soil by American workers is what I go with.

 

[billski]

Good friend of my father's in Florida retired from GM after 30 years as not middle management and certainly not board level, standard VP level manager. He receives 120K a year in retirement, which represents roughly 70% of his final salary, full health benefits AND a top of the line Cadillac EVERY year.

And who's bailout money is going to fund that new Cadillac every year? :smash:

I say let them keep the pension, hell they have to pay their prescriptions, but strip them of the non-competitive entitlements like cars, country clubs and god knows what else.

Somehow he can make that Caddy last more than a year, no? That is, if the QUALITY is up to it! :blink:

Sadly, I suppose this is the VP's reward for presiding over a period of low quality and non-competitive products :blink:

 

[Warp Daddy]

And who's bailout money is going to fund that new Cadillac every year? :smash:

I say let them keep the pension, hell they have to pay their prescriptions, but strip them of the non-competitive entitlements like cars, country clubs and god knows what else.

Somehow he can make that Caddy last more than a year, no? That is, if the QUALITY is up to it! :blink:

Sadly, I suppose this is the VP's reward for presiding over a period of low quality and non-competitive products :blink:

Yeah and GM 's motto is : Screw Up and Get Up ( at taxpayer's expense ) frankly i'd tie their pension payout exclusively and DIRECTLY to GM 's stock performance and let them get after the GM workforce.

120 k /yr plus in retirement for a paper shuffler is a problem .

 

[marcski]

And who's bailout money is going to fund that new Cadillac every year? :smash:

I say let them keep the pension, hell they have to pay their prescriptions, but strip them of the non-competitive entitlements like cars, country clubs and god knows what else.

Somehow he can make that Caddy last more than a year, no? That is, if the QUALITY is up to it! :blink:

Sadly, I suppose this is the VP's reward for presiding over a period of low quality and non-competitive products :blink:

Well won't those retirees just become another creditor when the company ends up in Bankruptcy Court?

 

[hammer]

Has anyone driven the new Audi A4? I think I saw one on the road today...has more lines to it, looks nice...

 

[billski]

Well won't those retirees just become another creditor when the company ends up in Bankruptcy Court?

yeah, but I think they are near the top of the pecking order.

I once knew an old timer who always dreamed of owning a Cadillac. He saved his whole life, with his own money, rewarded himself with a big honkin' thing. Seven years later he was major pissed when the thing died and he had to buy another car. He told me "I was expecting that car to last me the rest of my life!" :smash:

Huh? Was someone talking about Audi?

 

[billski]

I own an Audi. I'm pretty happy. That said, here's probably the biggest problem I have with the dealers, hot off the email inbox:


Have you been holding off getting that Check Engine Light diagnosed because of the diagnostic charge?

In our attempt to assist in this difficult economy, we will check your check engine light


for $89.95

This is a savings of
$ 25.00

Silly me. I thought they'd offer the service for FREE. :roll:
I just go to my indie shop.