AZ Challenge 2009: Chris Nyberg, Killington/Pico

[Greg]

So, would you mind telling me what you are interested in using, so I can go back and clean them up a bit? Thanks!

I liked the Fiddle and season length question. Oh, and the beer question is very important. :razz:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Yes Greg, I've bought my pass. Make sure you get a hold of me when you make it over this year and try not to drink until 3am the night before we ski, ok pal?
.

:x:x:blink:

 

[deadheadskier]

I think I am with the majority in that I think both Ovation and Big Dipper are far wider than they need to be. At such widths they both lose considerable character and have greater exposure to wind scouring. Has any thought been given towards planting tree stands to improve the trail designs?

 

[pepperdawg]

Question: Will Killington lead the way with Japanese Skiing Robots?

Thank You

 

[skiadikt]

I think I am with the majority in that I think both Ovation and Big Dipper are far wider than they need to be. At such widths they both lose considerable character and have greater exposure to wind scouring. Has any thought been given towards planting tree stands to improve the trail designs?

i think you mean double dipper. big dipper is the gladed run.

 

[thorski]

Are there any plans to expand the Rams head terrain park from top to bottom and possibly add a small to medium sized halfpipe?

 

[deadheadskier]

Are there any plans to expand the Rams head terrain park from top to bottom and possibly add a small to medium sized halfpipe?

You didn't see the press release where they are doing exactly this and it will be sponsored by Daewoo? :razz:

 

[thorski]

You didn't see the press release where they are doing exactly this and it will be sponsored by Daewoo? :razz:

No.Very funny though.
I thought Daewoo went belly up because the owner was skimming from the top or something like that.
Anyway the nephew and his little friends still want to hit a halfpipe built for people their size and old guys like me. I wouldn't care if it was built by jappanese robots. :grin:

 

[thetrailboss]

I think I am with the majority in that I think both Ovation and Big Dipper are far wider than they need to be. At such widths they both lose considerable character and have greater exposure to wind scouring. Has any thought been given towards planting tree stands to improve the trail designs?

They were wide to begin with, so you could let the trees grown in from the sides. We've been talking about the same problem at Sugarbush with FIS and some other trails. Part of the problem is that snowmaking overblow coats adjacent trees, kills them, and the trails get wider as a result. IIRC they are once again blowing snow on Ovation, but they certainly blow it on Double Dipper. Maybe cut back?

 

[andyzee]

Where should we go for the answers to these questions, here or Killingtonzone?

 

[deadheadskier]

They were wide to begin with, so you could let the trees grown in from the sides. We've been talking about the same problem at Sugarbush with FIS and some other trails. Part of the problem is that snowmaking overblow coats adjacent trees, kills them, and the trails get wider as a result. IIRC they are once again blowing snow on Ovation, but they certainly blow it on Double Dipper. Maybe cut back?

never thought of the snowmaking overblow killing trees, interesting.

I think any reclamation project would take years. Probably several seasons of fencing off more area than the intended regrowth. OZ at Sunday River could definitely use some more cover as well.

I think it can be / has been done though. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe at one point the entirety of Spruce Peak at Stowe was stripped clean in an attempt to make an above tree line Austrian style experience. The result was trails that rarely opened as all the snow was blown off into the woods. Today this is no longer the case, though Main Street is still pretty wide and exposed.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Wide trails=more skiable terrain to spread out the people!!!!

 

[JerseyJoey]

Wide trails=more skiable terrain to spread out the people!!!!

That's not how it works. Number of trails spread out the people, not width of trails.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

That's not how it works. Number of trails spread out the people, not width of trails.

it's all about skiable acerage..duh

 

[JerseyJoey]

it's all about skiable acerage..duh

Wider trails do not make more acreage. More acreage makes more acreage. You're welcome.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Wider trails do not make more acreage. More acreage makes more acreage. You're welcome.

It's not even worth argueing with you because you are so wrong..

 

[gpetrics]

I would like to second HighwayStar's inquiry about whether there are plans of any sort for an "extreme skiing comp" at Killington. The view of Devil's Fiddle from sunrise village is downright intimidating. Every time I pop out of my favorite stashes behind Bear Mtn, I love getting a look at the Fiddle from below on my way back to the chair. I think with some minor cleanup to get rid of the *some* of the trees that are encroaching the trail from the skier's right, and blowing some *targeted* snow in places where there are obvious life risks (e.g. if the natural snow has not been kind enough to cover the protruding boulders below the cliff drops) there could be an extreme compwith a venue better than any other on the EC. I would love to know if there has been any thought whatsoever to hosting such an event. I think it would be a good way to bring back a bit of the "beast of the east" that at one time made up Killington's entire brand, without doing any damage to the new brand you are trying to cultivate. Not only would you bring in a very ecclectic and dedicated group of excellent skiers to spend a day ripping at Killington, I think with a smart advertising campaign it can be used as an event to intrigue and attract some lower level skiers to the mtn as day customers.

I also think more skiers (who have money to spend) than you realize are captivated by the films and overall ski culture that TGR and MSP promote, and to exclude them and that culture is a mistake.... you do a good job with the Bear Mtn. Mogul Challenge year in and year out, but I feel like the entire event has become a bit dated when viewed int today's skiing scene.

So that wasn't really a question, but I'd love to hear some thoughts on that.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Totally off topic, but in response to the wide trail discussion. And though I rarely side with GSS, I must admit he has a point on this one!

Regardless of one's opinion of trail width, additional acreage (regardless of whether it's a new trail or a widened trail) results in an increased SAOT (skiers at one time) figure, which--depending on other facilities (parking, lodge, restroom, etc.)--determines the overall CCC (comfortable carrying capacity). I hate widened trails as much as the next guy, but a lot of ski areas who suffer from a poorly balanced infrastructure will use the concept of trail widening to increase the number of skiers that a particular "pod" can handle at one time.

For example, a common situation might be that a ski area was a bit hasty in its decision to put in a new, higher-capacity lift. In their planning, all they could see were the benefits of a new, fast, high capacity lift. But they forgot to compare the SAOT of the lift to the SAOT of the trails. Then they are putting more people in the trail system than it can handle. Widening a main trail into a superhighway is a simple (albeit ugly) method of increasing the trail SAOT.

 

[deadheadskier]

I understand how widening a trail can increase it's carrying capacity, but only IF such widening doesn't increase it's potential for wind scouring. It really depends on the aspect of the trail. If through widening, you create a trail that is perpetually icy, now all the traffic you were hoping it absorbs flees to the narrower trails nearby and trashes the conditions on those trails much more quickly.

Cannon is another mountain that makes me say, 'What the heck were they thinking' with the front 5 on the bottom. A few of those trails are wider than they are long and I can't wrap my head around why they wouldn't have cut two trails in the place of one really wide one.

Outside of a wide open powder filled western bowl, I see zero appeal in a trail that is wider than 100 feet. Most of the time I prefer much less width than that, but I can see the speed freaks wanting some greater width.

 

[Riverskier]

Wider trails do not make more acreage. More acreage makes more acreage. You're welcome.

You are joking, right? I, and I think most people on here would agree, that additional trails are preferable to widening them. However, clearly widening a trail does add acreage, and at least to some degree spreads people out.