AZ Challenge 2011 Results: Killington

[deadheadskier]

Aren't they required by law to open during the summer regardless of how busy it is?

huh?

That can't be true.

 

[oakapple]

Aren't they required by law to open during the summer regardless of how busy it is?

I believe that is true. The ski resort operates on public lands. When it is not being used for skiing, it has to be open to the public. But of course, they aren't making much money in the summer, aside from those who pay a nominal fee to ride the gondola.

 

[millerm277]

huh?

That can't be true.

Killington has an odd lease with a bunch of conditions like that in it. I have a copy at home, but won't be back there until Dec 15th. I believe (edit: Shortski) on KZone also has a copy.

 

[deadheadskier]

Does the lease stipulate that they have to offer lift service or that they just need to offer access?

 

[skiersleft]

Killington has an odd lease with a bunch of conditions like that in it. I have a copy at home, but won't be back there until Dec 15th. I believe Geoff on KZone also has a copy.

That's my understanding as well. I believe the lease requires them to run a lift from July 1 through the summer. So, the mountain biking analogy doesn't work, because they have to do that even if they lose money doing so.

 

[skiersleft]

Does the lease stipulate that they have to offer lift service or that they just need to offer access?

Lift service.

 

[SkiDork]

sounds stupid.

Why does the lease not specify lifts required to be running through 6/1 as well?

 

[skiersleft]

sounds stupid.

Why does the lease not specify lifts required to be running through 6/1 as well?

Don't shoot the messenger. That's what the lease states. Sausage making is not pretty or logical. I'm
guessing Powdr wanted to run a summer lift as late as possible if at all. Vermont probably wanted the lift to run as early as possible. They settled on July 1st. Things like that happen. It doesn't have to be logical. It just is.

 

[threecy]

sounds stupid.

Why does the lease not specify lifts required to be running through 6/1 as well?

That could have something to do with the seasonal state park closure each spring - ie Camel's Hump, for instance, is technically closed from mid April to Memorial Day.

 

[oakapple]

sounds stupid.

Why does the lease not specify lifts required to be running through 6/1 as well?

In any event, I believe they run the K-1 gondola year-round, weather permitting. I'm sure they (at least) recover the minimal cost of spinning it. And of course, once the new Peak Lodge is built, they'll have year-round dining, catering, and event revenues on top of that.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Doesn't Stowe have a similar agreement for their gondola?

 

[skiadikt]

mountain bikers no doubt have season passes as well...

and those passes cost $99 early purchase and max out at $159. chicken feed compared to the ski passes.

while i agree it probably costs a bit more to open the mtn for skiing - maybe a couple ski patrollers and very minimal grooming. but the cost is offset somewhat by the differential in cost of running superstar vs the k1. k1 requires more personnel and uses more energy.

 

[deadheadskier]

Doesn't Stowe have a similar agreement for their gondola?

If that is the case then it's a crappy deal for both Killington and Stowe. Unless summer operation losses are factored into the overall cost of the lease.

I can appreciate the USFS requiring public access, but to demand a private business to operate when not profitable seems a bit unreasonable.

I'm with SkiDork in that why then wouldn't skiers lobby to have the lifts spin at K through May as well.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I can appreciate the USFS requiring public access, but to demand a private business to operate when not profitable seems a bit unreasonable.

I agree, but why else do both mountains run their gondolas? While I am sure there are people who use the gondola in the summer, it certainly is a losing venture.

 

[millerm277]

I'm with SkiDork in that why then wouldn't skiers lobby to have the lifts spin at K through May as well.

The leases were written 50 years ago, so who knows what the thinking was.

 

[powhunter]

All reasonable answers. Good to hear they are planning to replace the SRT/Snowdon and that the Interconnect isn't dead.

I think he is somewhat mistaken about the May skiing, in that Killington misses a key detail about why it was more viable in the past.....there were events. They held various competitions and other things to give people a reason to come up. He's absolutely right in that "May skiing" alone, doesn't draw enough people.

Kmart used to own the spring

BMMC
Superstar bumps
Last day race
Triathalon

Dont bow down to the beast!!! Keep up the rant about spring skiing!! If its marketed correctly it can be profitable..Im sure some K management reads these forums

Steveo

 

[deadheadskier]

The leases were written 50 years ago, so who knows what the thinking was.

Stowe Gondola and Killington Gondola didn't exist 50 years ago, so stipulating that they run has to be a new amendment to the lease.

 

[skiersleft]

Stowe Gondola and Killington Gondola didn't exist 50 years ago, so stipulating that they run has to be a new amendment to the lease.

What matters is that the lease requires lift service during the summer at K. It may be stupid or not, but it is what it is. And given that it requires this, comparisons between may skiing and mountain biking are inapposite. K's claim that May skiing is not profitable is simply not undermined by the fact that they open for summer operations given that they are required to do so by law.

 

[skiadikt]

at some point, may skiing at k if not marginally profitable, was deemed worth doing at least on some level as they did it for almost 30 yrs. you'd think someone at one of the board meetings would have told pres he was frickin nuts. it was only when asc went belly up did they decide to end it.

there was a core group (myself included) for whom the ski season didn't end until memorial weekend. on a nice may weekend they'd have a pretty good crowd that included skiers and ski (bump) teams from all over out there. people were programmed to think that k sometimes skied into june and if you needed your fix or one more day that's where you went. it said it from the lift towers. they had enough of a business that made it worthwhile. wasn't like it was a one year experiment. given the population center, there's room for one eastern ski area to occupy what there is of that market. there used to be a war between k & sugarbush to see who would last the longest.

at this point, i'd be happy to see k do what jay peak, sugarloaf and the bush do. stay open as long as the snow lasts. since powdr has taken over, they've closed with at least another week or two left on the hill.

 

[deadheadskier]

If this issue is cash flow in May, then I think the best bet is for pass holders have their season pass expire on 5/1 and have to pay for day tickets. Throw the pass holders a bone by offering them 50% off window rates.

I think I've paid $50 to ski K late April the past couple of seasons. If I were a pass holder, I'd have no qualms with spending $25 a day if that's what it took to keep the mountain open a few more weekends.