AZ Challenge 2011 Results: Killington

[JimG.]

I would be happy to pay extra to help make it financially feasible to build a glacier, and to be able to ski well into May.

Me too...but then they would surely want the money upfront, early in the season. And then the issue of closing dates becomes a game of opinions.

Maybe they just don't want to deal with that anymore.

 

[RENO]

Come on, none of this is gonna happen! :lol: I'm not spending any more money. The passes are already high enough. I want a season pass that's good for the entire season. Some of you want them to cut the season pass to early or mid April and then charge you for another pass from then until closing? :-o That's ridiculous. :lol:

 

[Rogman]

A number of resorts have stayed open later than Killington in recent years. All do considerably less visits than Killington, and yet they obviously feel it is in their financial interest to remain open. It really isn't about revenue directly, but rather how they view the springtime business and how it fits into their overall business plan. I doubt a modest increase in the lift ticket revenue stream would alter Nyberg's thinking. It is not a POWDR decision, either. Mt Bachelor was open for July 4th. You want May skiing at K? Drink at the umbrella bar. That's his baby, it'll give him a reason to stay open. He wants to see that succeed.

 

[mister moose]

A number of resorts have stayed open later than Killington in recent years. All do considerably less visits than Killington, and yet they obviously feel it is in their financial interest to remain open. It really isn't about revenue directly, but rather how they view the springtime business and how it fits into their overall business plan. I doubt a modest increase in the lift ticket revenue stream would alter Nyberg's thinking. It is not a POWDR decision, either. Mt Bachelor was open for July 4th. You want May skiing at K? Drink at the umbrella bar. That's his baby, it'll give him a reason to stay open. He wants to see that succeed.

Strongly agree/disagree.

Yes, it's how they choose to view the springtime business.

Nyberg of course wants to see the umbrella bar do well, but
1) It's a punt from the Superstar Pub loss, and
2) The ROI meter shuts off at the end of April.

Huge business at the new bar will just make them glad they did it, and will still close in May.

 

[deadheadskier]

Come on, none of this is gonna happen! :lol: I'm not spending any more money. The passes are already high enough. I want a season pass that's good for the entire season. Some of you want them to cut the season pass to early or mid April and then charge you for another pass from then until closing? :-o That's ridiculous. :lol:

You'd rather the mountain continue to close May 1st, then spend $25 a day to be able to ski weekends in May?

In an ideal world, Powdr would be running Killington like Pres Smith, but those days are over. 6 years worth of bitching on the internet really hasn't changed much outside of a fancy new stairwell and a couple of vouchers given out last year because they pulled the plug a week early the year prior when the forecast for rain didn't happen and Superstar sat in the nice spring sun for what was supposed to be the final weekend.

I know when I was skiing Jay on May 7th, there were a ton of Killington skiers there paying the $40 or whatever they were charging. Given the choice, I think they'd all had rather been skiing Superstar instead of driving all the way up to Jay to ski the Jet.

 

[RENO]

You'd rather the mountain continue to close May 1st, then spend $25 a day to be able to ski weekends in May?

In an ideal world, Powdr would be running Killington like Pres Smith, but those days are over. 6 years worth of bitching on the internet really hasn't changed much outside of a fancy new stairwell and a couple of vouchers given out last year because they pulled the plug a week early the year prior when the forecast for rain didn't happen and Superstar sat in the nice spring sun for what was supposed to be the final weekend.

I know when I was skiing Jay on May 7th, there were a ton of Killington skiers there paying the $40 or whatever they were charging. Given the choice, I think they'd all had rather been skiing Superstar instead of driving all the way up to Jay to ski the Jet.

When I purchase a season pass I just want it to be good for the ENTIRE season and not have to shell out more money if the season goes into May. I don't think ending a season pass early-mid April and adding a pass from then until the snow melts will ever fly. It's just not gonna happen. Nobody on the planet does that. There's a reason why it's called a SEASON pass. I don't hate Nyberg and I think he's done some good things at Killington, unfortunately, as long as Nyberg is in charge at K there will never be May skiing/riding except for the first few days in May even if they got 15 feet of snow in April! I'd like to be proven wrong though! :grin: I wonder what it would be like if Pres Smith was still there, but he took the cash, dumped the resort and ran out of town as fast as he can! :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

I wasn't suggesting a separate pass. I was suggesting the mountain offer day ticket only skiing in May with season pass holders getting 50% off the walk up rate. Cash flow is the issue that time of year.

I'm assuming you have lodging at Killington yes?

A. So, you'd rather things stay as they are where Killington closes and you have to travel up to Jay for May turns and pay $40 and possibly lodging too if you don't want to make the 2+ hour commute.

versus

B. Killington staying open in May, you not having to pay for lodging at Jay. Your lift ticket costs only $25.

Option B seems like a much better scenario to me. Option C would be the Pres Smith / ASC way of business, but as noted, that isn't going to happen. That's why I'd suggest a scenario like option B. Perhaps if Season Pass holders were vocal enough about such a scenario, maybe K would stay open a couple more weekends if they realized they could get 500 season pass holders per weekend at $25 (25K) and another couple hundred non pass holders at $50 making the one lift operation of Superstar and minimal base lodge operation profitable.

 

[Highway Star]

If this issue is cash flow in May, then I think the best bet is for pass holders have their season pass expire on 5/1 and have to pay for day tickets. Throw the pass holders a bone by offering them 50% off window rates.

I think I've paid $50 to ski K late April the past couple of seasons. If I were a pass holder, I'd have no qualms with spending $25 a day if that's what it took to keep the mountain open a few more weekends.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAA........but you're not actually a pass holder. LOL. :roll:

Get real.

 

[deadheadskier]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAA........but you're not actually a pass holder. LOL. :roll:

Get real.

No, I'm not, but I am/have been a pass holder at other mountains and go and buy lift tickets at other areas that are still open when my "home" mountain closes. I've been skiing late season at Killington pretty much my whole life following the closure of where I've had a pass.

I'm just throwing an idea out there. You guys don't care for it and that's fine. That being what it is, you have no place to bitch any more about Killington closing May 1st. You can either try and propose a solution to the management at K that they might find compelling or you can accept Killington's operation plan under Powdr for what it is or you can go buy a pass to Jay and ski there.

The funny thing in all of this, the most vocal critics of them all (you being one of them) continue to return to Killington every year. None of you whiners have made the switch to other mountains that offer the late spring skiing you crave.

 

[Highway Star]

They have not done well lately in the spring, not for lack of charging but lack of strategy.

They did exceptionally well this November because they were able to draw visits from ticket buyers at other areas. Many people were skiing on the 2 for 1 coupons. This builds hype for the mountain among people who would not normally ski there and may create extra mid season visits.

Last few years they failed to have a compelling later spring product. They did somewhat well with some of the events, but many were duds so bad, due to weather, that they lost signifigant money. With the closing of bear and unreliably early closings of superstar, they are really in a circle of anti-hype on spring skiing that they can't seem to break out of.

Perhaps that will change this year. The umbrella deck bar will be a huge factor in that. They saw the hordes of people tailgating each spring in the parking lot that the deck is now built on. That will show a strong increase in April revenue for them, and may encourage them to operate longer.

Weather is a factor. They would like to hold outdoor events, but the weather is unreliable. Some events are weatherproof, like the old style BMMC; some are not, like the sunshine daydream or pond skimming. They need to avoid dependance on large outlay events that can be rained out.

They need economical, grassroots-ish events every weekend, but they should mainly depend on the inherent draw of the skiing and scene.

Perhaps run a Thrusday-Monday, or Friday-Sunday schedule.

Closing bear/needles so early is absurd, it severly cuts trail count and thus skier visits. They need to run at least the skye quad, and needles eye quad, and have the bear bathrooms open. Or even close the lot and lodge and have just porta johns.

 

[deadheadskier]

They have not done well lately in the spring, not for lack of charging but lack of strategy.

They did exceptionally well this November because they were able to draw visits from ticket buyers at other areas. Many people were skiing on the 2 for 1 coupons. This builds hype for the mountain among people who would not normally ski there and may create extra mid season visits.

Last few years they failed to have a compelling later spring product. They did somewhat well with some of the events, but many were duds so bad, due to weather, that they lost signifigant money. With the closing of bear and unreliably early closings of superstar, they are really in a circle of anti-hype on spring skiing that they can't seem to break out of.

Perhaps that will change this year. The umbrella deck bar will be a huge factor in that. They saw the hordes of people tailgating each spring in the parking lot that the deck is now built on. That will show a strong increase in April revenue for them, and may encourage them to operate longer.

Weather is a factor. They would like to hold outdoor events, but the weather is unreliable. Some events are weatherproof, like the old style BMMC; some are not, like the sunshine daydream or pond skimming. They need to avoid dependance on large outlay events that can be rained out.

They need economical, grassroots-ish events every weekend, but they should mainly depend on the inherent draw of the skiing and scene.

Perhaps run a Thrusday-Monday, or Friday-Sunday schedule.

Closing bear/needles so early is absurd. They need to run at least the skye quad, and needles eye quad, and have the bear bathrooms open. Or even close the lot and lodge and have just porta johns.

Great and agree on all of those things.

Do you think that those April potential revenue increases for K is what they need to convince them to continue into May? From Nyberg's response, it sounds like May skiing is dead at K. That's why I offered my solution for bringing cash to the table in May when so many of those who are skiing then are pass holders. Pass holders = no cash.

 

[Riverskier]

Me too...but then they would surely want the money upfront, early in the season. And then the issue of closing dates becomes a game of opinions.

Maybe they just don't want to deal with that anymore.

Just to be clear, I am not interested in buying another pass, or even an add on, effective 5/1. However, if SR (for example) decided to blow 20-30 feet of snow on White Heat like they did back in the 90's, and have season passes expire on 5/1, I would have no problem with that and would be happy to buy day tickets for the privlidge of getting to ski well into May.

 

[Ski the Moguls]

All this talk about season pass holders does not make any sense to me. IMO, if Killington stayed open later, and with a better product, than the other mountains, then the day trippers from those other mountains would come and buy their day tickets. As proof, I offer this year's November skiing. When you are the only game in town you draw a lot of extra people - and they buy day tickets. When you shut down in Spring at the same time (or even earlier ) than the other mountains you get nothing.

Dear Mr. Nyberg, Please try staying open as long as possible, with as much terrain as possible. In May you will see the skiers come. Just like they do in November.

 

[steamboat1]

Both umbrella's up.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

Both umbrella's up.

And the framing on the bathrooms is coming along too...

 

[JimG.]

Just to be clear, I am not interested in buying another pass, or even an add on, effective 5/1. However, if SR (for example) decided to blow 20-30 feet of snow on White Heat like they did back in the 90's, and have season passes expire on 5/1, I would have no problem with that and would be happy to buy day tickets for the privlidge of getting to ski well into May.

Understood...but realize they will not sink the capital into blowing a glacier without the money upfront.
They won't take the chance that enough people will buy tickets after 5/1 to make it worth their while.
You're asking them to take a risk that ski businesses don't take anymore.

I completely agree with you on the concept and I would be a frequent customer in May.

 

[bobbutts]

Sucks that May is officially a non-skiing month at K-Mart

These ideas about expiring passes and whatnot are not realistic. This thread is in the bargaining stages of denial.

 

[millerm277]

Closing bear/needles so early is absurd, it severly cuts trail count and thus skier visits. They need to run at least the skye quad, and needles eye quad, and have the bear bathrooms open. Or even close the lot and lodge and have just porta johns.

As a logical, easy measure, when you have made the decision to close Bear/Needles for the season, go take the fences down on the SS Crossover/Old GE, take some groomers and push snow up on it, and there you go. Now you can keep a significant portion of the trails open, at no additional operational cost besides slightly increased patrol/grooming needs.

That gives you the top half of everything from Skyeburst to Vertigo, all accessible off the Superstar Quad

 

[mediamogul]

I personally am much more interested in half the mountain not closing early when there is still good coverage than it staying open through May on a few trails. Also I pay enough for my pass and don't want to pay more. Also it is a "season" pass and should be good for the duration of the season.

 

[Highway Star]

As a logical, easy measure, when you have made the decision to close Bear/Needles for the season, go take the fences down on the SS Crossover/Old GE, take some groomers and push snow up on it, and there you go. Now you can keep a significant portion of the trails open, at no additional operational cost besides slightly increased patrol/grooming needs.

That gives you the top half of everything from Skyeburst to Vertigo, all accessible off the Superstar Quad

They started doing that again last year, if not the year before. While that helps somewhat, it's not really the point.

We're talking about mid April and closing Bear first weekend in April. If they are going to run Superstar, K-1, and Snowdon, they should also open Needles Eye and Bear, so that most of the mountain is open. When they close Bear and Needles, the trail count takes a nose dive and so do visits.

Here is what they should run through the third weekend in April, and possibly through school April vacation week.

Superstar
K-1
Snowdon Quad (long weekends only?)
Needles Eye Quad (long weekends only?)
Skyepeak Quad
Snowshed (or Ramshead) Quad (weekends only)

K-1 Lodge (KBL) with full services + Deck
Snowshed (or Ramshead) Lodge with bathrooms, tickets, basic food/snacks, weekends only.
Bear with bathrooms, tickets and (light) deck food/bev service, weekends only.