Big Burke announcement

[VTKilarney]

Why would the permitting and logistics be any different between 2 and 3? They are both right near the Toll Road and are above the 2000' in elevation.

My bad. I looked too quickly. I was thinking that the location was at the bottom of the Dipper trail, to the east of the hotel but out of view from the hotel. I see that it is actually quite a bit higher up.

Here is my ideal location: Somewhere at the base of the trails in the east bowl area, right under a new lift that is installed to service that side of the mountain.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Here is my ideal location: Somewhere at the base of the trails in the east bowl area, right under a new lift that is installed to service that side of the mountain.

Agreed!
:beer:

 

[deadheadskier]

I dig the Bears den and all, but I have a hard time believing they'd go through the trouble in moving outside of salvaging the bar and furniture. You think they'd really go through the trouble of moving the full structure including the fireplace?

 

[from_the_NEK]

I dig the Bears den and all, but I have a hard time believing they'd go through the trouble in moving outside of salvaging the bar and furniture. You think they'd really go through the trouble of moving the full structure including the fireplace?

Outside of the Fireplace (which would likely have to be replaced with a gas version anyway), the building is a bolted together truss structure that shouldn't be too difficult to disassemble and reassemble. I know of a lot of people that would volunteer to help move it.

 

[VTKilarney]

It appears from photos, such as the one below, that construction is favoring the west-wing of the hotel.



I noticed that the plans for the new hotel show that the new bar will be located in the east-wing of the hotel. You can see that depicted here (note: the top of the diagram faces south, toward the ski lift):

View attachment 14604

Isn't a funny coincidence that work appears to be lagging on the wing that will have the bar and Q Burke announced an unexpected change in plans to keep the Bear Den bar? Coincidences never cease to amaze me, even if they are just that - a coincidence.

No doubt we will see construction pick up on the east wing this winter. I mean, that's the plan, right?

 

[from_the_NEK]

Dude, I'm not saying you are wrong but I highly doubt that the order in which they are putting the pieces of the building together has anything to do with where the bar is (or isn't) going.

More likely reason the "2nd" floor of West wing is likely progressing faster: There is a lot more site work being done on the driveway area adjacent to the lower side of the East Wing that is preventing the cranes from safely accessing that area of the building.

I think you are searching for a hot topic to talk about that may not really be there. If it turns out to be the case that the Hotel no long has a major bar as shown in the floor plan. I'll buy you a beer at the Bear Den :beer:

Edit: The floor plan attachment is still busted.

 

[VTKilarney]

Dude, I'm not saying you are wrong but I highly doubt that the order in which they are putting the pieces of the building together has anything to do with where the bar is (or isn't) going.

I was just pointing out a coincidence, nothing more. ;-)

 

[VTKilarney]

Weird. It seems like the attached photos will work for a while, and then stop working.

Here is the floor plan again:

 

[from_the_NEK]

If they do actually drop the big bar from the plans, I think they would at least keep a small bar that serves drinks for functions in the Day Lodge/Balcony area (see the small "bar" area between the big bar and the Day Lodge). A ski bar that doesn't have windows looking toward the ski trails is not going to be very popular. The Bear Den has both mountain and Willoughby views!

Replace the big bar with Conference Room 3. Replace Conference Room 3 with an indoor wedding chapel?

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Dude, I'm not saying you are wrong but I highly doubt that the order in which they are putting the pieces of the building together has anything to do with where the bar is (or isn't) going.

I think you are searching for a hot topic to talk about that may not really be there. If it turns out to be the case that the Hotel no long has a major bar as shown in the floor plan. I'll buy you a beer at the Bear Den :beer:[/QUOTE=from_the_NEK;876152]

Lay off him, he has a Qonspiracy Theory :grin:

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Dude, I'm not saying you are wrong but I highly doubt that the order in which they are putting the pieces of the building together has anything to do with where the bar is (or isn't) going.

I think you are searching for a hot topic to talk about that may not really be there. If it turns out to be the case that the Hotel no long has a major bar as shown in the floor plan. I'll buy you a beer at the Bear Den

Lay off him, he has a Qonspiracy Theory :grin:

 

[VTKilarney]

I'm quite serious when I say that I was just pointing out a coincidence. After all, who in their right mind would build half a hotel and leave an empty shell for the remaining half. Nobody would ever do such a thing - at least if they have the business skill of a five year old. If you couldn't build the whole thing you build something smaller. You don't build part of the whole thing and then finish only half of it.

 

[steamboat1]

 

[thetrailboss]

The Hotel is funded for completion. Right?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[Masskier]

If they move it (yes, I said "if"), I doubt that option #1 will be the new location. My feeling is that they want to showcase the new hotel, and that they won't want this structure in front of it.

Option #2 is a non-starter. It's a permitting nightmare, and a logistical nightmare.

Option #3 would make a lot of sense.

In order to capture the skier traffic off of the Sherburne Express, is there a spot just below the entrance to High Meadow Pass that would work?

IMHO, the bigger question is why has there been a change of plans regarding the Bear Den? I've got a theory based on data that was recently presented to me, but it's still a work in progress.

OMG, here we go again. LOL :lol:

 

[VTKilarney]

OMG, here we go again. LOL :lol:

It's not really a laughing matter, Masskier.

Here is what we know from what is out there. Stenger stated in April that Burke was 25% funded. The figure that is most commonly used for the Burke project is $108 million. The contractor of the hotel (J. Davis), in September 2014, told a news outlet that the hotel that is now under construction would cost "about $55 million" to build. If we assume that Stenger was referring to fundraising for the whole project, we can infer that as of April approximately $27 million had been raised just to complete the hotel. This was shortly before ground was broken. That left $28 million to be raised for completion of the hotel.

So the real question is what have they raised since April, since we know that they had a LONG way to go. Seeing the various projects that are languishing (AnC Bio, Newport, Stateside), there is reason to believe that EB-5 fundraising has significantly languished. We also know that when it suits him, Stenger has no problem advertising the fact that a project is successfully funding. Yet there hasn't been one peep out of the Burke stakeholders about this since April.

So what does this mean? This is merely my opinion, but I think that it is reasonable to question the state of affairs up at the hotel. Putting together what has been out there, it's my opinion that EB-5 capped out at about $25-$30 million short of what is needed to complete the hotel. That means that either private funding has to be secured, or something has to give on the construction side of the equation. Since we are talking about a massive amount of private equity for a not-so-busy ski area that has had demonstrable management issues, I'm not sure how easy it will be to raise funds through non EB-5 channels.

One way or the other, we should have a clear picture of where things stand by this spring. If money is an issue, you can only pretend that it is not for so long.

I'm happy for you to show that my opinion is off base, Masskier. But cheerleading alone is not persuasive. If you have some facts that I have missed or disagree with my logic, consider this your opportunity to let me know where my opinion went astray.

But that's just my opinion. Only time will tell if it is accurate or not.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

It's not really a laughing matter, Masskier.

Here is what we know from what is out there. Stenger stated in April that Burke was 25% funded. The figure that is most commonly used for the Burke project is $108 million. The contractor of the hotel (J. Davis), in September 2014, told a news outlet that the hotel that is now under construction would cost "about $55 million" to build. If we assume that Stenger was referring to fundraising for the whole project, we can infer that as of April approximately $27 million had been raised just to complete the hotel. This was shortly before ground was broken. That left $28 million to be raised for completion of the hotel.

So the real question is what have they raised since April, since we know that they had a LONG way to go. Seeing the various projects that are languishing (AnC Bio, Newport, Stateside), there is reason to believe that EB-5 fundraising has significantly languished. We also know that when it suits him, Stenger has no problem advertising the fact that a project is successfully funding. Yet there hasn't been one peep out of the Burke stakeholders about this since April.

So what does this mean? This is merely my opinion, but I think that it is reasonable to question the state of affairs up at the hotel. Putting together what has been out there, it's my opinion that EB-5 capped out at about $25-$30 million short of what is needed to complete the hotel. That means that either private funding has to be secured, or something has to give on the construction side of the equation. Since we are talking about a massive amount of private equity for a not-so-busy ski area that has had demonstrable management issues, I'm not sure how easy it will be to raise funds through non EB-5 channels.

One way or the other, we should have a clear picture of where things stand by this spring. If money is an issue, you can only pretend that it is not for so long.

I'm happy for you to show that my opinion is off base, Masskier. But cheerleading alone is not persuasive. If you have some facts that I have missed or disagree with my logic, consider this your opportunity to let me know where my opinion went astray.

But that's just my opinion. Only time will tell if it is accurate or not.

It is interesting that there has been no formal announcement on funding. But with that said, I don't think anyone (and I hope I'm not wrong) would be crazy enough to start a project of that magnitude up here with the risk of it not being completed. I imagine there is a bank already behind it as a back stop, as a worst case.

I did check out the site the other day and it appears much busier in person than what someone could pick up from on webcam. There were probably 15-20 workers and lots of construction vehicles. Also, the Mid Burke lot is full of semis with stacks and stacks of wood. They are labeled for the part of the building they are going to (for example, East, 15).

To me the real question is the future projects, I'd put those in the doubtful category, unless I hear more.

 

[JPTracker]

I'm quite serious when I say that I was just pointing out a coincidence. After all, who in their right mind would build half a hotel and leave an empty shell for the remaining half. Nobody would ever do such a thing - at least if they have the business skill of a five year old. If you couldn't build the whole thing you build something smaller. You don't build part of the whole thing and then finish only half of it.

From the view on the web cam they started on one side of the hotel then are working across to the other side. They are still one the first floor of framing.

The bigger question is why is work progressing so slowly? It seems as they have a minmal crew on just to show progress. If they were building at the same speed Jay put up the Tram Haus Lodge there would be a lot more framing up if not all up by now.

 

[VTKilarney]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I can't imagine that any CEO would be so reckless as to commence construction of the hotel without reasonable assurance that funding is in place. For all of the flack that management at Burke has received, it is simply inconceivable that they would be that incompetent.

Having said that, I stand by my opinion that EB-5 funding fell short as of the time ground was broken. My estimation is that they had only secured $24-$27 million through EB-5.

This may simply be the result of unseasoned management, but what's frustrating about this whole thing is that I can't see any reason why they have failed to indicate that sufficient funding is in place. There is a lot of whispering here in the NEK about the NEK improvement project having problems. The delay in projects alone justifies the concern that people have.

So there appears to be a disconnect. On the one hand, management states that they see the value in reassuring the local community. This was their stated rationale for changing the name of the resort to "Q Burke". If they understood the locals, they would know that a much better method of reassuring the locals would be to just come out and say that sufficient funds are in place to complete construction of the hotel as planned. For the life of me I can't see any reason NOT to do this since they have gone on record saying that only 25% had been secured. That is not a good way to leave things. Not a good way at all. If a simple and short press release would make all of the chatter go away, it is senseless to leave this hanging.

 

[VTKilarney]

The bigger question is why is work progressing so slowly? It seems as they have a minmal crew on just to show progress. If they were building at the same speed Jay put up the Tram Haus Lodge there would be a lot more framing up if not all up by now.

Now that is an interesting observation. The Burke hotel is supposed to be modeled after the Tram Haus Lodge. I was not aware of the pace of construction for the Tram Haus. You would think that, adjusting for seasonal effects, the pace would be similar.