Big Burke announcement

[thetrailboss]

Can anyone explain this? Burke claims to have 267 acres of skiable terrain. They have 8 out of 36 trails open. At the same time, they claim that they have 135 skiable acres open.

Lol. That's funny.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[VTKilarney]

I just noticed something else that is odd. Burke lists 50 trails in their marketing materials. Their online trail map lists 52 trails by name.

And yet in the snow reports for the past several days they have been reporting their total trail count as 36 trails. For example, today they reported 8 out of 36 trails being open.

 

[from_the_NEK]

As noted earlier in this thread (5 or 20 pages ago :razz, they dropped Mid-Way from the trail list.

I currently count 37 Trails:

Big Dipper

Binney Lane

Boarderline

Bunker Hill

Carriage Road

Carter Country

Dashney Mile

Deer Run

Dipper Doodle

Doug's Drop

East Bowl

Fox's Folly

The Gap

High Meadows Pass

The Ledges

Lew's Leap

Lift Line

Little Dipper

Lower Bear Den

Lower Doug's Drop

Lower Fox's Folly

Lower Powerline

Lower Warrens Way

Lower Willoughby

McHarg's Cut-off

Mountain Marsh

Open Slope

Powderhorn

Re-run

The Shoot

Upper Bear Den

Upper Dipper

Upper Fox's Folly

Upper Powerline

Upper Warren's Way

Upper Willoughby

Wilderness And 15 Glades: Birches Caveman Dixiland Enchanted Forest Flaming Eddie's Hibernator Jester The Jungle Lee's Loop Marshland Sasquatch Scooby Doo Throbulator Wayne's World Y-Knot

37+15 = 52
They may be counting one of the "trails" as "glade" or some other classification. For example, technically Jester is a MTB trail, not a glade. Maybe Dashney Mile is not a trail but rather a "terrain park".

Either way, I'm sure they are using the lower number of total trails to make the situation look less worst :dunce:.

 

[VTKilarney]

Either way, I'm sure they are using the lower number of total trails to make the situation look less worst :dunce:.

Ah... that explains it. They are using only the non-glade trails. Gotta love it.

 

[thetrailboss]

Ah... that explains it. They are using only the non-glade trails. Gotta love it.

The acreage is still off I think though.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[VTKilarney]

The acreage is still off I think though.

It has to be. I saw the acreage reported at onthesnow.com. I assume that they get their information from the ski area, no?

 

[Tin]

Some homer posted it is not about compressors and snowmaking issues but about temperature and "Burke Mountain Resort" liked it. :lol:

 

[VTKilarney]

 

[VTKilarney]

Some homer posted it is not about compressors and snowmaking issues but about temperature and "Burke Mountain Resort" liked it. :lol:

I have a suspicion that some of the defenders are either employees or friends of employees. Just a hunch, nothing more.

 

[ScottySkis]

Is this the longest thread ever?

Not sure legalize MJ thread I hope does not neat this because MJ become fully legal soon.

 

[rueler]

I have a suspicion that some of the defenders are either employees or friends of employees. Just a hunch, nothing more.

I agree with you. The last name of one of the defenders is the same last name as the "on mountain" operations manager, Jason Lefebreve.

The people on the FB page with the concerns on the lack of snowmaking power don't have ANY problems with the people who are busting their ass making the most of what they have to work with. It's disappointing, sad and makes anyone that's been around a mountain in their day question what's going on when they are only making snow on one trail at a time. When Q came in and all of us saw that they didn't have all the diesel compressors, we knew that there would be a loss of power. We are now fully realizing how that loss of power translates to what they can do or should I say "not do" on the hill. Yesterday, I spoke directly with someone who works on the mountain. He confirmed that it's because a lack of power. He also said that the snowmaking infrastructure (pipes, pump houses, compressors, etc.) need an overhaul and he did more than hint, when he said that once the hotel was up, the next big project was to overhaul the snowmaking system. I trust him and what he said…I just question when? Will he have totally lost the faith of the skiing public before he eventually corrects the problem?

A pass holder I ski with wrote emails to "the fearless leader" last year after a miserable Christmas week about the same concerns that are being voiced now on Facebook. The feedback registered for sure, and he said that he'd fix the problems. Unfortunately, he didn't feel that fixing them this year was a priority. His priority is pretty clear and seen all around the mountain. The hotel…and to reduce/cut costs. Hopefully, he does fix the snowmaking problems he said that he would. I just wish that he or someone from management would address it officially like the GM at Wildcat did last year. It would go a long way with many Burkies if he would just be upfront about it.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree with you. The last name of one of the defenders is the same last name as the "on mountain" operations manager, Jason Lefebreve.

The people on the FB page with the concerns on the lack of snowmaking power don't have ANY problems with the people who are busting their ass making the most of what they have to work with. It's disappointing, sad and makes anyone that's been around a mountain in their day question what's going on when they are only making snow on one trail at a time. When Q came in and all of us saw that they didn't have all the diesel compressors, we knew that there would be a loss of power. We are now fully realizing how that loss of power translates to what they can do or should I say "not do" on the hill. Yesterday, I spoke directly with someone who works on the mountain. He confirmed that it's because a lack of power. He also said that the snowmaking infrastructure (pipes, pump houses, compressors, etc.) need an overhaul and he did more than hint, when he said that once the hotel was up, the next big project was to overhaul the snowmaking system. I trust him and what he said…I just question when? Will he have totally lost the faith of the skiing public before he eventually corrects the problem?

A pass holder I ski with wrote emails to "the fearless leader" last year after a miserable Christmas week about the same concerns that are being voiced now on Facebook. The feedback registered for sure, and he said that he'd fix the problems. Unfortunately, he didn't feel that fixing them this year was a priority. His priority is pretty clear and seen all around the mountain. The hotel…and to reduce/cut costs. Hopefully, he does fix the snowmaking problems he said that he would. I just wish that he or someone from management would address it officially like the GM at Wildcat did last year. It would go a long way with many Burkies if he would just be upfront about it.

Spot on. Though I don't know what costs could be cut. The product is now subpar.
Spot


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[rueler]

You're right Trailboss, not many other costs can be cut. He's already done it and is sticking to his guns of not spending the money to rent compressors and buy diesel which would be necessary to cover the hill with an adequate machine made base. I heard that he wasn't running the fan guns the other day because the the electricity rates are at peak. Don't know how true that one was, but I wouldn't doubt it. He ran one of the fan guns at the top of Sherburne Express all day yesterday.

Even if he rents the compressors next year or the year after and gets the snowmaking operation back to what it was, it's still an antiquated system at best. The way that the lines run up the mountain on the west side is fine…but, they are all hodge podged together just above the Poma…they run across the mountain along Toll Road to get to the Dippers. I am not aware of any pump houses on that side of the mountain. They truly need to overhaul the whole system if they want to insure a consistent skiing product. Hell, we would all be happy if they just got back to what they were.

 

[VTKilarney]

The good news is that they have finally recognized the problem on their Facebook page. The bad news is that their response was dismissive and failed to address the well-known underlying problem. Here is what they posted:

Happy New Year Friends!! Shall we set the record straight? Feels like great timing since we're on Day 1 of 2015. What, where, and how we should be snow making this winter season?
November 14th we began making snow. 9 million gallons of water were pumped to get 5 groomers open for a fantastic opening weekend Dec. 13th. Mother Nature treated us well when nearly 14 inches fell mid-December and we were happily boasting 70% skiable acreage. Temps rose however and snow making became impossible until this past Sunday, 12/28 when the guns were turned back on and have been running non-stop.
Our choice of upgrades this year was to replace our land based guns with high efficiency towers to balance our water to air ratio to produce the best product possible for our skiers and riders. Every season brings new challenges and sometimes the weather works in our favor during busy season – unfortunately that wasn't the case this go around.
Dashney Mile will be opening Friday with limited features (our crew is working hard to get features at 100%); Binney Lane will be pushed and groomed today with our expectation of opening Friday as well; snow making has begun on Lower Willoughby and will continue through the weekend. After we have our lower mountain up to par we will move on to the dippers to satisfy our Burke enthusiasts.
Thank you to everyone that supports us and continues to work with us as we embrace the challenges of mother nature. Your passion and concern for the mountain is second to none and just goes to show how important our efforts are to skiers and riders.

 

[VTKilarney]

Spot on. Though I don't know what costs could be cut. The product is now subpar.
Spot on.

Agreed. That was a great post that summarizes the challenges.

 

[AmmergauerTele]

There are a lot of options out there. Gotta make quality snow these days to compete. In NH - Loon, WV, Ragged, Cannon, BW all on the 93 corridor are all blasting away with the guns and closer to the Boston metro area. Not sure the draw of a hotel on the mountain is gonna bring you all the way up north to ski Burke for an unreliable product. The amount of time and money spent to drive that far for subpar skiing would not happen for me and my family. Investing in a pass there probably would not happen. In VT there are so many other choices - yeah, quite a bit more expensive (Stowe, Sugarbush…). When you have areas tossing million each year into snowmaking infrastructure (even Wildcat is getting into the mix) with all the high efficiency tower guns, and Burke decides to build a hotel, you have to question their priorities. For me - when I go skiing it is all about the conditions, hotel experience is secondary. If the skiing is subpar I will never go back and spend the time and money on a weak product. Burke needs to be careful here - are they a "resort" or a ski area. I'm thinking the latter. You could say that for about all the places in New England. Stowe is a ski area first, and a resort second. People go to Stowe and pay the $100+ for a ticket because they put out a superior skiing product. If the skiing sucked there - the place would be a ghost town. I would imagine Stowe had a pretty good week even with the rain due to their snowmaking capacity.

 

[VTKilarney]

What's really concerning about their most recent Facebook post is that they acknowledged the problem but offered absolutely no indication that they intend to remedy the problem.

In a follow up comment, Burke said that they can only average 30 snowmaking guns in use at one time. How does this compare to other similar sized areas? For that matter, how many guns line the Dippers alone?

 

[rueler]

What's really concerning about their most recent Facebook post is that they acknowledged the problem but offered absolutely no indication that they intend to remedy the problem.

In a follow up comment, Burke said that they can only average 30 snowmaking guns in use at one time. How does this compare to other similar sized areas? For that matter, how many guns line the Dippers alone?

There are probably more than 30 guns on the Dippers. That's why they usually blow snow on it in parts. They typically drag ground guns onto Carriage Road and open that as the initial route to the middle part of Dipper. That top section of Dipper takes a lot to cover. A patroller that I know said that was the plan for the coming week as well.

 

[VTKilarney]

There are probably more than 30 guns on the Dippers. That's why they usually blow snow on it in parts. They typically drag ground guns onto Carriage Road and open that as the initial route to the middle part of Dipper. That top section of Dipper takes a lot to cover. A patroller that I know said that was the plan for the coming week as well.

I was assuming that 30 guns won't even get you half of Dipper. But I really hadn't paid much attention.

I am also assuming that if they can only average 30 guns, they can't get 30 guns going at one time on the top of the mountain.

 

[VTKilarney]

Here are some posts made by Q Burke in response to questions:

In regards to capacity we currently have a 2200 gpm water supply and pumping capacity. Mid Burke pumps 2200 gpm while the upper mountain pumps around 800 gpm. A 4000 cfm (100 psi electrical compressor) helps supply air to the ENTIRE mountain which limits our artificial snow production due to balancing water / air. We can average running 30 snow guns at one time due to piping of different sizes throughout the mountain along with pumping zones which limit our ability to rapidly cover the mountain with artificial snow.

Allison, we currently have a 2200 gpm (gallons per minute) water supply and pumping capacity. Our upgrade of 67 energy efficient guns (out of 252 fixed air guns on the mountain) gave us more bang for our buck. These energy efficient gun can produce 10 to 28 cubic feet of snow per minute with our 4000 cfm electric compressor which means we are producing more snow in a given period based on temps and humidity. Keep in mind...just because the temps are below freezing does not mean we can just flip a switch. Optimal snow making temps for our system is actually 18F where our guns can pump as much as 50 gpm of snow.

According to our "masters of snow" our HDK guns can produce 15 gpm of snow at 26F, 30 gpm at 22F, and 50 gpm at 18F. Again, keeping in mind that we are at "full" capacity with 30 guns running at a time.

If I had more time I would compare this to other similarly sized ski areas.