Big Burke announcement

[fbrissette]

I think they're trying to fill that hotel of theirs. I'm just kicking back with my feet high. Figured I'd help. I'm a helper.

That's good because they need a lot of help.

 

[Steve@jpr]

Agreed Francois but, hey, who doesn't?

That's good because they need a lot of help.

 

[River19]

Heard, great reports on the "Foggy Goggle" soft opening.

Good to hear, some friends and friends of the family will be working there if all goes well with the place.

I've never known you to hear a negative report on anything......lol

 

[thetrailboss]

Pics of the fan gun work are on FB.

 

[Masskier]

Good to hear, some friends and friends of the family will be working there if all goes well with the place.

I've never known you to hear a negative report on anything......lol

Yea, I know, I tend to be an optimist. Though it is nice having another good restaurant in Burke.

 

[the original trailboss]

That's good because they need a lot of help.

Correct - the problem is that is all they have to sell right now. The personality, character, culture and vibe that is the soul of any ski area (each unique unto itself) is currently nonexistent at the ski area formerly known as Burke Mountain Resort. Most former employees have left (or were dismissed early on), the local community is mostly turned off or lukewarm at best, their events now draw basically NO locals (witness the zero crowd at the special Bear Den opening Saturday) , two restaurants and Mike's Tiki Bar have opened in East Burke not because of the mountain draw but in spite of it. These new places are heavily staffed with former Burkies, and, I predict, they will draw lots of winter customers who have been turned off by the attitude, isolationism, and arrogance of the current president and CEO ( a fact he reiterates with nearly every utterance........ ) The marketing guru says they will maintain their hometown feel - really ?

 

[VTKilarney]

I think what you are seeing is the inevitable consequence of Q Burke severing ties with Kingdom Trails. This motivated people to think of KT and the village of East Burke as completely separate entities from the mountain. The energy behind KT began to be directed toward the village and not at all toward the mountain. The village blossomed.

Q Burke could have been the hub of biking activity, or at least a co-hub. But Ary made sure that never happened. Now he gets the lift served bikers, but that's about it - and even most of them have dinner and a beer somewhere else.

It was a HUGE mistake to shun KT.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think what you are seeing is the inevitable consequence of Q Burke severing ties with Kingdom Trails. This motivated people to think of KT and the village of East Burke as completely separate entities from the mountain. The energy behind KT began to be directed toward the village and not at all toward the mountain. The village blossomed.

Q Burke could have been the hub of biking activity, or at least a co-hub. But Ary made sure that never happened. Now he gets the lift served bikers, but that's about it - and even most of them have dinner and a beer somewhere else.

It was a HUGE mistake to shun KT.

Not just KT, but the WHOLE community. And what did they gain? Nothing.


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[River19]

I think what you are seeing is the inevitable consequence of Q Burke severing ties with Kingdom Trails. This motivated people to think of KT and the village of East Burke as completely separate entities from the mountain. The energy behind KT began to be directed toward the village and not at all toward the mountain. The village blossomed.

Q Burke could have been the hub of biking activity, or at least a co-hub. But Ary made sure that never happened. Now he gets the lift served bikers, but that's about it - and even most of them have dinner and a beer somewhere else.

It was a HUGE mistake to shun KT.

I think this is right on point. We spend plenty of time in the village killing brain cells at Mike's after riding, etc. and no one....and I mean no one talks about the mountain. You never hear people talking about "hey we're heading up the mountain for....." or "we were up at the 'rack last night and.....". It is really like the place fell off the face of the earth. And to your point on the lift served guys/gals.....look at the parking lot for the Tiki at 3pm to 5pm and there are a good number of downhill rigs on vehicles coming in for beers, food, showers etc. Not up at the mountain. Sure they may get a bite to eat mid day quickly at the mountain followed by water, soda etc.......but that is not winning the war for F&B business.

Dan's new Foggy Goggle is doing well, some service kinks to work out like any new place but just in time for winter.

The post from OTB above about the vibe is also spot on........."sterile" and "desperate" is what I get anytime I roll through there.

 

[thetrailboss]

The post from OTB above about the vibe is also spot on........."sterile" and "desperate" is what I get anytime I roll through there.

Not the vibe that one wants to have in the hospitality/resort business if you ask me. My feeling when I was there in February this year was that the vibe was dead. Muted. Sterile. I never saw that at Burke before. Folks were previously friendly and happy. Maybe the sterile and muted vibe works in Massachusetts, but not the NEK.

 

[River19]

Not the vibe that one wants to have in the hospitality/resort business if you ask me. My feeling when I was there in February this year was that the vibe was dead. Muted. Sterile. I never saw that at Burke before. Folks were previously friendly and happy. Maybe the sterile and muted vibe works in Massachusetts, but not the NEK.

And given that much of the disrespect was spewed by Jr. in both written as well as verbal conversation and knowing Jr is still very much in the fold up there.....that certainly doesn't improve the relationship at all. I asked some former Burkies and current Burkies if he was still around and they all gave me that look like, don't believe the hype, he's still very much involved and around. The impression that I got was his existence and anything Q related just keeps that heavy sterile feeling up front and palpable.

Hey listen, the hotel looks great, it is coming along on a schedule consistent with what they have been saying etc. They look to have been working on some of the first phase of snow making improvements, albeit the jury is out on the effectiveness of that part. But, make no mistake about it, what they will be left with is a very neutered vibe and what I can only describe as a complete disconnect from the local community.

As mentioned above, it appears that the village of E. Burke and the people most responsible for the great vibe of the area, have all succeeded and grown in spite of Q not because of Q. It feels like the surrounding towns are tighter in everything non-Q related. KT is stronger than ever......think about it, if Q needed to raise money to keep going would ski pass holders have ponied up like the "Save Sidewinder" campaign did? Wildflower is stronger and busier with KT having their winter headquarters there as well as VSS having a shop there. Heck even the Mountain View seems to be thriving and busier than ever.

Interesting stuff.

 

[thetrailboss]

And given that much of the disrespect was spewed by Jr. in both written as well as verbal conversation and knowing Jr is still very much in the fold up there.....that certainly doesn't improve the relationship at all. I asked some former Burkies and current Burkies if he was still around and they all gave me that look like, don't believe the hype, he's still very much involved and around. The impression that I got was his existence and anything Q related just keeps that heavy sterile feeling up front and palpable.

Hey listen, the hotel looks great, it is coming along on a schedule consistent with what they have been saying etc. They look to have been working on some of the first phase of snow making improvements, albeit the jury is out on the effectiveness of that part. But, make no mistake about it, what they will be left with is a very neutered vibe and what I can only describe as a complete disconnect from the local community.

As mentioned above, it appears that the village of E. Burke and the people most responsible for the great vibe of the area, have all succeeded and grown in spite of Q not because of Q. It feels like the surrounding towns are tighter in everything non-Q related. KT is stronger than ever......think about it, if Q needed to raise money to keep going would ski pass holders have ponied up like the "Save Sidewinder" campaign did? Wildflower is stronger and busier with KT having their winter headquarters there as well as VSS having a shop there. Heck even the Mountain View seems to be thriving and busier than ever.

Interesting stuff.

Agreed. Good point about others stepping up to fill the void and the community supporting each other.


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[Big Wave Dave]

you guys are like bitter ex girlfriends

heres the deal- you nattering nabobs of negativity are missing the point- nobody cares outside your coccoon!

Despite all the progress at burke, all the stuff that could have (perhaps may, but I think we can all agree less and less so) derailed this project with EB 5, the idiot Q's, etc., its all steaming along. But the tone here is the exact same as TWO YEARS AGO.

I would offer up your insights are clouded by your closeness, and of course level of caring, which is obvious.

Let me be more succint- nobody cares!

the vast majority of people I know who ski burke could not give a rats behind about the drama you have all described, fretted over, and, agreeably, experienced. this is my subjective view, versus yours of constantly finding windmills of disrespect to tilt at.

Let me empiracally prove my point. Lets all agree that the population of East Burke, in fact, the whole NEK, never goes to Burke again.

Population of East Burke- 130
Population of NEK (last census)- about 64,000

Population of Worcester Ma- 182,000

Guess what? people in Worcester ski, and nobody cares about what Q said two years ago, or if old employees have been mistreated.

You guys are viewing the world through a viewpoint of your choosing, not saying your viewpoint is wrong (although I have been skiing burke a loooong time and dont agree at all with opinions that it is some kind of wasteland up there, as I have had zero conscience notice that things are now "different") but it is limited. I repeat- the people that i know who ski burke from out of state dont even know about what you all do, and dont care one bit. And that is the target audience.

carry on misanthropes

 

[fbrissette]

you guys are like bitter ex girlfriends

heres the deal- you nattering nabobs of negativity are missing the point- nobody cares outside your coccoon!

Despite all the progress at burke, all the stuff that could have (perhaps may, but I think we can all agree less and less so) derailed this project with EB 5, the idiot Q's, etc., its all steaming along. But the tone here is the exact same as TWO YEARS AGO.

I would offer up your insights are clouded by your closeness, and of course level of caring, which is obvious.

Let me be more succint- nobody cares!

the vast majority of people I know who ski burke could not give a rats behind about the drama you have all described, fretted over, and, agreeably, experienced. this is my subjective view, versus yours of constantly finding windmills of disrespect to tilt at.

Let me empiracally prove my point. Lets all agree that the population of East Burke, in fact, the whole NEK, never goes to Burke again.

Population of East Burke- 130
Population of NEK (last census)- about 64,000

Population of Worcester Ma- 182,000

Guess what? people in Worcester ski, and nobody cares about what Q said two years ago, or if old employees have been mistreated.

You guys are viewing the world through a viewpoint of your choosing, not saying your viewpoint is wrong (although I have been skiing burke a loooong time and dont agree at all with opinions that it is some kind of wasteland up there, as I have had zero conscience notice that things are now "different") but it is limited. I repeat- the people that i know who ski burke from out of state dont even know about what you all do, and dont care one bit. And that is the target audience.

carry on misanthropes

So in essence, you are saying it is OK for QBurke to say fuck you to East Burke and KT because out of staters are a much bigger market ?

 

[BenedictGomez]

So in essence, you are saying it is OK for QBurke to say fuck you to East Burke and KT because out of staters are a much bigger market ?

Sort of. I took it to mean that they can crap on the local market all they want as long as their ex-local efforts are succeeding at increasing profit and bringing in the bodies and with it $$$$$, etc... I actually thought it was a pretty good post*.




*EDIT: Other than the fact he doesn't know what "misanthrope" means.

 

[dlague]

Sort of. I took it to mean that they can crap on the local market all they want as long as their ex-local efforts are succeeding at increasing profit and bringing in the bodies and with it $$$$$, etc... I actually thought it was a pretty good post*.




*EDIT: Other than the fact he doesn't know what "misanthrope" means.

Think the meaning fits!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Think the meaning fits!

It's a person who hates human beings and mankind in general. Not real sure how that could apply here. More suitable to the vegan granola crunchy recluse who lives in the woods and decries overpopulation.

 

[VTKilarney]

Sort of. I took it to mean that they can crap on the local market all they want as long as their ex-local efforts are succeeding at increasing profit and bringing in the bodies and with it $$$$$, etc... I actually thought it was a pretty good post*.




*EDIT: Other than the fact he doesn't know what "misanthrope" means.

The problem with the OP's contention is that the mountain is getting clobbered in the summer. I agree that there is a captive ski audience in the winter, but with all of the services that have cropped up in the village, there is going to be a lot of bleeding in the winter as well.

The momentum to establish services off-mountain really took off when Q told the locals and partners to screw themselves. The purpose of running a business is to maximize profit. In this regard, pissing off those people was an epic fail. He has lost a LOT of F&B money because of it.

You also neglect one very important reality... We don't know if the hotel is going to break even. I sincerely hope it does, but the fact that it was built with "free" money does not mean that it will be a success. Now that it has been built, it NEEDS to be a success. Q Burke simply can't afford to subsidize a large operating loss created by the hotel.

IMHO the key to the hotel succeeding is how well it does during the bicycling season. Winter alone is not enough.

As much as I hope the OP is right, the OP counted chickens that have not yet hatched.

I believe that East Burke has a bright future. I also view the hotel as a potential game changer in a positive sense. Don't take my criticism for an overall lack of optimism. The dust will settle one way or the other.

 

[the original trailboss]

you guys are like bitter ex girlfriends

heres the deal- you nattering nabobs of negativity are missing the point- nobody cares outside your coccoon!

Despite all the progress at burke, all the stuff that could have (perhaps may, but I think we can all agree less and less so) derailed this project with EB 5, the idiot Q's, etc., its all steaming along. But the tone here is the exact same as TWO YEARS AGO.

I would offer up your insights are clouded by your closeness, and of course level of caring, which is obvious.

Let me be more succint- nobody cares!

the vast majority of people I know who ski burke could not give a rats behind about the drama you have all described, fretted over, and, agreeably, experienced. this is my subjective view, versus yours of constantly finding windmills of disrespect to tilt at.

Let me empiracally prove my point. Lets all agree that the population of East Burke, in fact, the whole NEK, never goes to Burke again.

Population of East Burke- 130
Population of NEK (last census)- about 64,000

Population of Worcester Ma- 182,000

Guess what? people in Worcester ski, and nobody cares about what Q said two years ago, or if old employees have been mistreated.

You guys are viewing the world through a viewpoint of your choosing, not saying your viewpoint is wrong (although I have been skiing burke a loooong time and dont agree at all with opinions that it is some kind of wasteland up there, as I have had zero conscience notice that things are now "different") but it is limited. I repeat- the people that i know who ski burke from out of state dont even know about what you all do, and dont care one bit. And that is the target audience.

carry on misanthropes

While your big picture analysis of the scenario may be reality for Q, etc., historically, the entire community has always "been in this together" for the benefit of all. Ary has chosen to step outside of that to the degree that the ski area might as well be located somewhere else. That go-it-alone mentality might work someplaces, but it has never yielded positive results here. Just sayin' (words from a lifelong NEK resident and Burkie - one with lots of traveling and business experience as well.)
Jeesh, Dave, we're not a bunch of ignorant, head-up-our-butts rednecks against everything. In fact, this area has a strong history of partnering and supporting lots of efforts. The onus for this attitude lies squarely with Ary.

 

[fbrissette]

I believe that East Burke has a bright future.

IMO the potential of East Burke lies in the KT a lot more than in the mountain. There are lots of better/equivalent mountains to ski in Quebec and New England. There are lots of better/equivalent lift-served mountain biking facilities elsewhere. KT is what makes this place unique.

To me it is crystal clear that for everyone to really thrive optimally, QBurke needs to work with KT and the community. It is beyond me that they can't see that. Dumb dumb dumb.