Big Burke announcement

[zeke]

So this is what I heard from my sources. First, Stenger has had a relationship with Burke since 2000 when the BMA-related entity took over. He saw them as a means to join forces to draw more skiers and riders, hence the reciprocity deal for a long time.

Of course when they hit the EB-5 jackpot Q and him were looking for other opportunities. Burke, at that time, had just invested in the HSQ, had no real operator to run the place, and was looking for an exit strategy in 2012 after a bad ski season. Daddy Q liked the idea....and gave Bill the money. I have been told by a family friend that Bill's son was initially tapped out to be the manager of Burke. He had recently graduated from college and was "learning the ropes" at Jay. Then Daddy Q objected because Junior needed a job. Hence how we got him.

Stenger's involvement with Burke is officially quite limited. He is listed as an "advisor" to the board...the board being Daddy Q and his lawyer. However, Stenger has had to swoop in and put his image and reputation on the line to bail the Qlowns out now several times. So yes, he has something at stake...his reputation and credibility.

I've actually heard a very different angle on that

i was told by someone close to the situation that Stenger had no idea that Q was buying Burke and wasn’t happy about it at all. but he agreed to be the EB-5 face and partner on the hotel, after the fact.

I assume he agreed to this (not source backed, just makes sense to me) because of the “Admin” fee that they split for every investor brought in. i’ve read it’s $25,000 per investor. So for the goal of 216 investors in the original Burke plan, that’s $5.4 million for their little cabal to split up.

this makes more sense to me–stenger doesn’t know about the private purchase by Q, so he has no say in how it’s managed. he agrees to help with funding to keep the partnership and all the EB5 admin fees rolling in (at that time Burke, the airport, two Newport projects, anc bio, etc. were all still on the table). also the reason he continues to bail them out of jr's antics–easy to swallow pride and apologize for someone else when you sleep on a pile of cash at night.

 

[steamboat1]

I assume he agreed to this (not source backed, just makes sense to me) because of the “Admin” fee that they split for every investor brought in. i’ve read it’s $25,000 per investor. So for the goal of 216 investors in the original Burke plan, that’s $5.4 million for their little cabal to split up.

Pretty sure the "Admin" fee is $50,000 not $25,000 unless of course you talking about after the split.

 

[mbedle]

I've actually heard a very different angle on that

i was told by someone close to the situation that Stenger had no idea that Q was buying Burke and wasn’t happy about it at all. but he agreed to be the EB-5 face and partner on the hotel, after the fact.

I assume he agreed to this (not source backed, just makes sense to me) because of the “Admin” fee that they split for every investor brought in. i’ve read it’s $25,000 per investor. So for the goal of 216 investors in the original Burke plan, that’s $5.4 million for their little cabal to split up.

this makes more sense to me–stenger doesn’t know about the private purchase by Q, so he has no say in how it’s managed. he agrees to help with funding to keep the partnership and all the EB5 admin fees rolling in (at that time Burke, the airport, two Newport projects, anc bio, etc. were all still on the table). also the reason he continues to bail them out of jr's antics–easy to swallow pride and apologize for someone else when you sleep on a pile of cash at night.

I'm a little confused, isn't Stenger a part owner of Q Burke?

 

[VTKilarney]

It will be interesting to see how much of a role Stenger plays at Burke once the EB-5 projects have played out.

 

[zeke]

I'm a little confused, isn't Stenger a part owner of Q Burke?

to my understanding he has nothing to do with the company that operates the ski mountain (except for the ridiculous board seat). he is part of the company building the hotel-with investors' money–a totally separate company. if the ludicrous aquatic and tennis center ever gets up and running, i'm sure that will be a separate company too. it helps keep liability down–or at least dispersed.

plus Q can sell land he already owns a privately-owned company to the investor-funded/owned company at a massive premium.

 

[thetrailboss]

I've actually heard a very different angle on that

i was told by someone close to the situation that Stenger had no idea that Q was buying Burke and wasn’t happy about it at all. but he agreed to be the EB-5 face and partner on the hotel, after the fact.

I assume he agreed to this (not source backed, just makes sense to me) because of the “Admin” fee that they split for every investor brought in. i’ve read it’s $25,000 per investor. So for the goal of 216 investors in the original Burke plan, that’s $5.4 million for their little cabal to split up.

this makes more sense to me–stenger doesn’t know about the private purchase by Q, so he has no say in how it’s managed. he agrees to help with funding to keep the partnership and all the EB5 admin fees rolling in (at that time Burke, the airport, two Newport projects, anc bio, etc. were all still on the table). also the reason he continues to bail them out of jr's antics–easy to swallow pride and apologize for someone else when you sleep on a pile of cash at night.

I'm pretty sure that Burke reached out to Stenger to see if he and Q-Daddy were interested in buying the resort. Now I agree that Daddy just assumes that he can run the ski area on his own ("I'll just copy Stenger"), but it isn't working.

 

[zeke]

I'm pretty sure that Burke reached out to Stenger to see if he and Q-Daddy were interested in buying the resort. Now I agree that Daddy just assumes that he can run the ski area on his own ("I'll just copy Stenger"), but it isn't working.

the operations company from canada did on behalf of the hedge fund that "owned" the mountain ops. what i understand is that Q sr acted on his own with that information and didn't include stenger. i could be wrong, but anyone who is arrogant enough to put a giant Q in front of everything and think everyone will do the same–even to the point of asking the state to change the official name of the mountain itself is arrogant enough to get sick of all the pro-stenger headlines and press that they ultimately funded.

end of the day. the Q family of f-ups runs mountain ops 100% and stenger is involved to keep the EB5 gravy flowing–and to do so, needs to at least put a jay management spin on mountain ops to fight bad press from team Q.

they brought in that andrew kid who seemed genuinely qualified and eager, that didn't last, they tried it with steve wright and that seemed to last about an hour. if stenger had any real say, neither would have left imho

 

[River19]

It's interesting, in thsi soap opera the focus all summer has been on the hotel and getting the hotel open by 12/11 and then the rumors of funding issues, then no issues, then issues, then no issues etc.

If 60% of the last few posts are true about how the inmates are running the asylum with Q-Bert in 100% control of mountain ops and F&B.....then eff the hotel, their biggest issue is the day to day ski mountain is exactly the same as last year and the hotel is just lipstick on a pig.

"Don't mind the lack of open trails, bad customer service, lift oddities, policy confusion........look up there....shiny new toy....look kids a beautiful new partially completed hotel."

Am I misinterpreting things or is there a chance the mountain ops portion takes only 2 steps forward when they needed to take 10 steps forward?

 

[oldtimer]

2 more positive notes- 1) it is getting colder. Sooner or later snow will be made and turns will be made. 2) We are not stake holders in the Saddleback metropolitan area. As much distaste as I have for the way the Q-family has operated, they have not (yet?) left us dangling like the Saddleback skiers. Would those who ski there trade the name "q-Back" for lifts operating this winter? That is a great hill that sure looks like it will b e earn your turns only this winter......

 

[oldtimer]

2 steps forward?

if there are NET steps forward that will be good. With the lack of experienced personnel we could see lots, lots more stuff like freezing up the snowmaking lines and lifts not running. Buying the new guns does not, in and of itself, mean we have taken net steps forward.

It's interesting, in thsi soap opera the focus all summer has been on the hotel and getting the hotel open by 12/11 and then the rumors of funding issues, then no issues, then issues, then no issues etc.

If 60% of the last few posts are true about how the inmates are running the asylum with Q-Bert in 100% control of mountain ops and F&B.....then eff the hotel, their biggest issue is the day to day ski mountain is exactly the same as last year and the hotel is just lipstick on a pig.

"Don't mind the lack of open trails, bad customer service, lift oddities, policy confusion........look up there....shiny new toy....look kids a beautiful new partially completed hotel."

Am I misinterpreting things or is there a chance the mountain ops portion takes only 2 steps forward when they needed to take 10 steps forward?

 

[River19]

2 steps forward?

if there are NET steps forward that will be good. With the lack of experienced personnel we could see lots, lots more stuff like freezing up the snowmaking lines and lifts not running. Buying the new guns does not, in and of itself, mean we have taken net steps forward.

Fair point, I was trying to be positive....what was I thinking.....lol

Shiny new fan guns run by a rookie ops team could be a hot mess.......

We shall see......

 

[faQ]

I think there is a town meeting tonight regarding trail lighting, no?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[from_the_NEK]

I think there is a town meeting tonight regarding trail lighting, no?

From the town's website:

Conservation Commission Agenda November 18th

announced November 14, 2015

Burke Conservation Commission

AgendaBurke Town Clerk’s OfficeNovember 18, 2015 – 6 p.m.

​

Approve October meeting minutes (review ahead of time)
Discuss organizational changes

• Night skiing Act 250 proposal for QBurke
• Proposed riparian buffer regulation
  
  • Interactive map: http://burkevermont.org/rivercorridors.php
• Potential land protection/stewardship strategies

Other business/updates
Next meeting date: December 16

 

[halfpintvt]

ACT 250 NOTICE
APPLICATION AND HEARING
# 7C0206-15
10 V.S.A. §§ 6001 -6093

On January 5, 2015, QBurke
Mountain Resort LLC [223 Sherburne Lodge Road, East
Burke, VT 05832] filed application #7C0206 -15
for a project described as on mountain alpine ski trail lighting. The project is located on Burke Mountain in East Burke, Vermont. The application was deemed complete on October 19, 2015. This project will be evaluated by the District #7 Environmental Commission in accordance with the 10 environmental criteria of 10 V.S.A., § 6086(a).

A public hearing is scheduled for Tuesday evening, November 17, 2015 at 7:00 P.M. at the Burke Community Building, 212 School Street, West Burke, Vermont.

A site visit will be held before the hearing, at 6:00 P.M. Directions to the site: Meet at the parking lot of the Darling Recreational Park, also known as the East Burke Park (playground), 905 Vermont Route 114 (north of East Burke village, and across from Woodmont Cemetery), from where participants will drive to different points of interest, for which private transportation will be required. If the site visit takes longer than one hour, the hearing start time will be later than 7:00 P.M. The Commission intends to narrow the scope of the hearing to Criteria 8 (aesthetics) and 10 (local plan conformance) unless the scope is expanded by the Commission at the hearing.

The application may be viewed on the Natural Resources Board's web site (www.nrb.state.vt.us/lup)
by clicking "Act 250 Database" and entering the project number “7C0206-15”
For more information or disability accommodations, contact Kirsten Sultan, District Coordinator
before the hearing date at the address or telephone number below.
Dated at St. Johnsbury, Vermont this 30[SUP]th[/SUP] day of October, 2015
.
BY:
/s/ Kirsten Sultan
Kirsten Sultan, P.E., Coordinator
District #7 Environmental Commission
1229 Portland Street, Suite 201
St. Johnsbury, VT 05819
802-751-0126
kirsten.sultan@vermont.gov

 

[from_the_NEK]

^If they are going to visit "different points of interest" as part of a site visit tonight, I wonder if they are going to put up some portable temporary lights to simulate the visibility of lighted trails.

I saw a truckload of 5 United Rentals units similar to these driving north through Lyndonville last Friday:

If that is the case I may need to take a drive around between 6 and 7:00 tonight.

 

[from_the_NEK]

And things are looking rather "complete" on the exterior via the webcam:

http://www.earthcam.net/projects/qburkemountain/resorthotel/index.php?cam=pano

I foresee the swailed area at the base of hill between the lift and the main entrance to the lodge being a muddy mess this spring.

 

[oldtimer]

let us suppose that Q is serious about this and thinks there is money to be made with night skiing, perhaps Dashney only? I suffer from having been around this industry for way too many years from NJ to Northern Maine. I do not have enough fingers and toes to count the number of ski trails that I know of with some manner of scrapped lighting on them because some newbie thought they could extend the day and make more money. Over the years miles of copper has been strung and ultimately harvested from the trees, but the big lights (from giant scoops with huge incandescent bulbs, to mercury vapor in massive housings, to directed spot lights) remain.

Why not viable? Most that I am thinking of are EXACTLY like Burke. More rural than urban. A steady clientele, but mostly local, and a large percentage of skiers are season pass holders. Will he milk any more form season pass holders- not because of this. Will it draw people from away? no. Will the few folks staying in the hotel plunk down more $ for this pleasure? not more than once.

Night skiing is cold. A "nice day" in January (+15 degrees and not too much wind) is easily zero at night and it feels colder at night.

who is successful with lights? those with beer leagues and school programs. They already get all the schools they are going to get (and they don't treat them especially well). Beer league- there ain't enough bodies.

I hope someone goes tonight since I cannot. This makes no sense.

 

[wtcobb]

I saw a truckload of 5 United Rentals units similar to these driving north through Lyndonville last Friday:

The lady drove by there Saturday night and said she saw lots of lights around the mountain. Could have been construction lights, but anyone see anything similar? Having a "demo" of the proposed lighting could make sense...

 

[thetrailboss]

let us suppose that Q is serious about this and thinks there is money to be made with night skiing, perhaps Dashney only? I suffer from having been around this industry for way too many years from NJ to Northern Maine. I do not have enough fingers and toes to count the number of ski trails that I know of with some manner of scrapped lighting on them because some newbie thought they could extend the day and make more money. Over the years miles of copper has been strung and ultimately harvested from the trees, but the big lights (from giant scoops with huge incandescent bulbs, to mercury vapor in massive housings, to directed spot lights) remain.

Why not viable? Most that I am thinking of are EXACTLY like Burke. More rural than urban. A steady clientele, but mostly local, and a large percentage of skiers are season pass holders. Will he milk any more form season pass holders- not because of this. Will it draw people from away? no. Will the few folks staying in the hotel plunk down more $ for this pleasure? not more than once.

Night skiing is cold. A "nice day" in January (+15 degrees and not too much wind) is easily zero at night and it feels colder at night.

who is successful with lights? those with beer leagues and school programs. They already get all the schools they are going to get (and they don't treat them especially well). Beer league- there ain't enough bodies.

I hope someone goes tonight since I cannot. This makes no sense.

Agree that nightskiing only works, and somewhat, in areas with more people and more demand. Even then it is very cold.

Granted he appears to be going after the young freeskier/boarder group because he only wants to light the park. But those folks generally have less disposable income (hence less revenue potential) and let's face it that market at Burke is relatively limited.

 

[VTKilarney]

I agree with the earlier post. What boggles my mind is that the only night skiing proposed is for the terrain park. These are just a few concerns I have with their plan:

1) The lights won't attract a sufficient number of skiers who are actually paying to ski under the lights. Park skiers generally have season passes, or would have skied during the day anyway.
2) Lighting only the terrain park caters to a small fraction of the skiers at the mountain - and a group that pays among the cheapest for season passes and drops very little money on concessions.
3) The plan does not call for connecting the hotel with the trail that has lights. If you are staying in the hotel you will presumably have to take a shuttle to get to the Sherburne lift. Running a shuttle isn't cheap, and it's not that appealing when you are paying a premium for ski-in ski-out access.
4) Northern Vermont is much colder than southern New England.

Is it possible that this is really a plan to feature lit mountain biking trails? It doesn't get dark until pretty late during the summer, so I'm not sure what the appeal would be.

How does Bretton Woods do with their night skiing? BW is a much bigger operation, but it's pretty darned rural.

If they want to generate revenue during the evening from their hotel guests, I would have put in snowtubing and/or ice skating.