Big Burke announcement

[thetrailboss]

Guess I don't have as many years going to Burke as TOTB, only since '84-'85 for me... That many years consecutive seasons passes is impressive. If I had invested that much of my life there, pretty sure I'd be writing a very, very long letter to Stenger and Sr. You know how it goes, 1 guy tells 25 people bad reviews, they each tell 25, and so on and so forth... It's really going to start getting ugly. So many people have been alienated now, there may be no way to recover at all without an ownership change again.

It's really a shame that BMA couldn't just of owned and managed the mountain. Make it a teaching mountain for all facets of the industry.

I can tell you that TOTB has personally conveyed his feelings, diplomatically, to Ary and Bill. He can fill you in on the response (or non-response) if he wishes. He also was a part of the infamous "focus group" a few years back that informed them as to what Burke is and what it means.

 

[VTKilarney]

Was the skiing off the summit that bad? Seems odd they would hang out on the lower intermediate and beginner terrain on the lower mountain.

The complaint I kept hearing is that it was bad for lower end intermediates. In other words, a LOT of children. And for many intermediates it just wasn't any fun.

I skied up top, and I can understand why a lot of families thought that it was bad. Deer Run was horrible (at least looking from the chair lift). Carriage Road was pretty slick, and they way it empties onto Deer Run is dangerous. The bottom half of the Dippers wasn't that bad - but you had to go through a lot of poor stuff to get there.

I had some fun with it, but I can see how it was not a good fit for a lot of people. It's also a reflection of Burke's Achilles heel - that there is not a good trail to transition from the lower mountain to the upper mountain.

I've been saying for a long time that Deer Run is one of the most dangerous trails in the Northeast. IMHO sections of it should be closed for good.

 

[thetrailboss]

At this point, the real question in my mind is if Cannon or Bretton Woods will accept the Qrefugees next season.

 

[River19]

Thank God they posted a video of the lower mountain.....if I were their marketing dept I would drop the webcam soon as well....seeing as how I had that up most of the morning in the background and right now it is long line of empty chairs.....as the condo captives are eating lunch, packing up and clogging the highway shortly.

If/when the area gets a good natural dumping, the captives will come out of their condos and ski, but we know that is because as captives they have sunk $ into passes already and want to get "something" for their money. It will look like people are flocking to the mountain depending on what angle they shoot their phone videos etc. but at the end of the day, to me, day passes are the true barometer of this season.....season passes were purchased based on a load of shit shoveled by Stenger et al.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I can tell you that TOTB has personally conveyed his feelings, diplomatically, to Ary and Bill. He can fill you in on the response (or non-response) if he wishes. He also was a part of the infamous "focus group" a few years back that informed them as to what Burke is and what it means.

I was there too and I wonder, by next year, how many of the people in that focus group are still buying a season pass.

 

[mbedle]

Was just looking online and it doesn't seem like a good idea to have Carriage road dumping at 90 degrees onto Dear Run with Dear Run being so small. Looks like a good place for a couple of crashes.

 

[thetrailboss]

And VTK reported that Q said that they are "30,000 skier visits down" from an average season. To put that in perspective, if they normally do, say, 75,000 skier days a season that normally runs Early-December through Mid-April, they have lost at least 20% of their season off the bat (so that is 15,000 right there) and so far in the first three weeks have lost another 15,000. That leaves them pretty damn low. Absurdly low.

 

[VTKilarney]

Was just looking online and it doesn't seem like a good idea to have Carriage road dumping at 90 degrees onto Dear Run with Dear Run being so small. Looks like a good place for a couple of crashes.

That's a really dangerous spot. There is a good pitch on the section of Carriage Road that dumps onto Deer Run. And you can't see the skiers approaching on Deer Run.

It's also dangerous where it crosses the Dippers.

 

[thetrailboss]

That's a really dangerous spot. There is a good pitch on the section of Carriage Road that dumps onto Deer Run. And you can't see the skiers approaching on Deer Run.

It's also dangerous where it crosses the Dippers.

If you go back to the archives, you see that Northern Star intended to cut a new portion of Carriage Road that continued down the fall line at that point and would run parallel to the Dippers with snowmaking. It would have tied into Little Dipper. As a result, Toll Road was effectively closed for a season or two because the Dippers Extension really made too many intersections. But by popular local demand it is back. I think it is fine as long as folks know to look before crossing the downhill trails.

 

[VTKilarney]

If you go back to the archives, you see that Northern Star intended to cut a new portion of Carriage Road that continued down the fall line at that point and would run parallel to the Dippers with snowmaking. It would have tied into Little Dipper. As a result, Toll Road was effectively closed for a season or two because the Dippers Extension really made too many intersections. But by popular local demand it is back. I think it is fine as long as folks know to look before crossing the downhill trails.

While I generally agree, there are a couple of issues that I see:
1) There are tons of beginners on Deer Run and they aren't very conscientious about rules of safety.
2) The line of sight between Carriage Road and Deer Run is REALLY bad. You can't see people on the other trail until the last second.
3) People come FLYING down the Dippers. It's a trail that really makes you want to carry speed. I've seen a couple close calls based on speed alone. And again, I don't blame people for wanting to carry speed on the Dippers.

 

[BenedictGomez]

This all makes me wonder what kind of financial losses Q can sustain.

 

[thetrailboss]

This all makes me wonder what kind of financial losses Q can sustain.

We're going to find out here. I imagine that it is eating into their revenue stream that they get from Jay.

 

[thetrailboss]

While I generally agree, there are a couple of issues that I see:
1) There are tons of beginners on Deer Run and they aren't very conscientious about rules of safety.
2) The line of sight between Carriage Road and Deer Run is REALLY bad. You can't see people on the other trail until the last second.
3) People come FLYING down the Dippers. It's a trail that really makes you want to carry speed. I've seen a couple close calls based on speed alone. And again, I don't blame people for wanting to carry speed on the Dippers.

Agree as to all. IIRC Carriage Road used to not be as groomed as it is now. And when it got snowmaking the intent was to close off Deer Run/Toll Road completely.

 

[VTKilarney]

Agree as to all. IIRC Carriage Road used to not be as groomed as it is now. And when it got snowmaking the intent was to close off Deer Run/Toll Road completely.

Now that makes sense. If Carriage Road was allowed to bump up it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[VTKilarney]

This all makes me wonder what kind of financial losses Q can sustain.

IMHO it's quite simple. So long as EB-5 administrative fees (for their statewide scheme) outpace operational losses, they will stay in the game.

I have to figure that we are getting dangerously close to the tipping point. AnC Bio may be the canary in the coal mine. Remember the groundbreaking back in May? You'd think that construction would have started in earnest, but I don't believe that it has. And there is no permitting action at all for the huge hole in downtown Newport. And let's not forget that the SEC might ruin the party.

I will be watching very closely this summer to see how much they actually wind up spending on snowmaking improvements. It wouldn't surprise me if they start circling the wagons even tighter. They will blame it on the hotel not opening on time, and promise to make the improvements next year.

 

[thetrailboss]

IMHO it's quite simple. So long as EB-5 administrative fees (for their statewide scheme) outpace operational losses, they will stay in the game.

I have to figure that we are getting dangerously close to the tipping point. AnC Bio may be the canary in the coal mine. Remember the groundbreaking back in May? You'd think that construction would have started in earnest, but I don't believe that it has. And there is no permitting action at all for the huge hole in downtown Newport. And let's not forget that the SEC might ruin the party.

I will be watching very closely this summer to see how much they actually wind up spending on snowmaking improvements. It wouldn't surprise me if they start circling the wagons even tighter. They will blame it on the hotel not opening on time, and promise to make the improvements next year.

The big thing will be if Ary REALLY leaves this summer or not. I don't care about their "improvements". Those don't matter if you have someone who has no idea how to run the place and does not want to listen to anyone who does.

 

[River19]

The big thing will be if Ary REALLY leaves this summer or not. I don't care about their "improvements". Those don't matter if you have someone who has no idea how to run the place and does not want to listen to anyone who does.

I think we would all comfortably say Jr. finally leaving would be the largest improvement they possibly could make. And they supposedly did last year.....but that was a pile of steaming crap now wasn't it?

 

[deadheadskier]

Anyone emailed Bill Stenger about his broken promise regarding Ary?

 

[River19]

Anyone emailed Bill Stenger about his broken promise regarding Ary?

Good question/thought/idea.

Does anyone else find it really insulting when they say something to appease the crowd in front of them then plow right on through and don't deliver on anything?

No accountability. It is always someone else's fault........the State, the Weather, the river level, passholders are lying, etc.

 

[BenedictGomez]

IMHO it's quite simple. So long as EB-5 administrative fees (for their statewide scheme) outpace operational losses, they will stay in the game.

Before recent times, the above would be the obvious answer.

The problem is, supposedly there is now some measure of financial control being imposed (finally) by State of Vermont so that the money cannot be used as a slush fund larger than the GDP of a 3rd-world nation, and with no accounting to boot, as was the previous case.

Of course, this relies on State of Vermont actually doing what they claim to be doing, of which I'm a cynic.