Big Burke announcement

[yeggous]

Something like that. We certainly know that those items weren't paid for by profits from the ski area.

Let's look at the bright side. For a few years Stenger and Quiros helped chip away at our international trade deficit.

And these new development will help the mountains in the long run. They never would have happened otherwise. There is definitely a silver lining here.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

 

[epic]

And these new development will help the mountains in the long run. They never would have happened otherwise. There is definitely a silver lining here.

Maybe, but only if they are able to consistently fill a hotel that big. Otherwise it is just a fiscal sore that makes it harder to operate the mountain than before. It may actually make it less desirable than before. Besides, if you are a potential buyer for the mountain, land tat you can build on is more valuable than land that has already been built on. The money is made when you build, not from operating what you built. If it were otherwise, Q would have done whatever is needed to get that hotel open.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Maybe, but only if they are able to consistently fill a hotel that big. Otherwise it is just a fiscal sore that makes it harder to operate the mountain than before. It may actually make it less desirable than before. Besides, if you are a potential buyer for the mountain, land tat you can build on is more valuable than land that has already been built on. The money is made when you build, not from operating what you built. If it were otherwise, Q would have done whatever is needed to get that hotel open.

My guess is, that in the end, half of the hotel gets sold off as timeshare apartment-like units. The other half remains hotel.

 

[River19]

One other silver lining with the hotel is that I always thought it was a smart design (if you have to build something that big) in that as suites, there is a chance to possibly sell units within the hotel as time shares/condos etc.

 

[VTKilarney]

I've always been amazed at how many people are willing to purchase condos at a ski area that is perpetually going bankrupt.

 

[epic]

Wait, what?

From Burlington Free Press - "That will be the responsibility of the federal receiver who has taken control of all the EB-5 projects except the Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center."

So who controls the Hotel right now? PeakCM?

 

[from_the_NEK]

Wait, what?

From Burlington Free Press - "That will be the responsibility of the federal receiver who has taken control of all the EB-5 projects except the Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center."

So who controls the Hotel right now? PeakCM?

I think so. Since the hotel was built with EB5 money that all passed through the state's regulatory review, it is on the up and up. However, I have a feeling once the connection between Stenger and PeakCM is revealed, the hotel will go into receivership as well.

 

[oldtimer]

double post

 

[VTKilarney]

I think so. Since the hotel was built with EB5 money that all passed through the state's regulatory review, it is on the up and up. However, I have a feeling once the connection between Stenger and PeakCM is revealed, the hotel will go into receivership as well.

But how can Stenger continue to run the Burke hotel if there is an injunction prohibiting him from having anything to do with an EB-5 project?

IIRC, at the press conference the Attorney General strongly hinted that the Burke Hotel may be coming into receivership. It is hard to see a scenario where it doesn't. Well... maybe a foreclosure by the contractor.

I'm still not convinced that Jerry Davis is an angel in this whole thing. But that is PURE speculation on my part and nothing more.

 

[BenedictGomez]

And these new development will help the mountains in the long run. They never would have happened otherwise. There is definitely a silver lining here.

Given the gains are through destroying some people's lives and completely illegal, I'd call it a pyrite-lining at best.

And frankly, it's too early to tell how much "help" some of these developments will be in the long run, because you can no longer trust ANYTHING Burke and Jay Peak were publicly saying about their books. No confidence.

Take the waterpark? They claim it's very profitable, I've always had my doubts, and my doubts are bigger now. Anyone ever see Jay release any statistics for annual paid Pump house visits?

 

[oldtimer]

it has been said here before, but I agree with VTK- both Davis and Mike (I.e. the new burke GM & principle at Mike's Electric) appear to thick as thieves (pun intended) with Q senior. Hard to believe their companies survive this mess intact.

AND, as has been said before, the biggest loser here appears to be the city of Newport. Tony Pomerleau sniffed this out a long time ago and was very public about what he thought of the Q family.

 

[VTKilarney]

the biggest loser here appears to be the city of Newport. Tony Pomerleau sniffed this out a long time ago and was very public about what he thought of the Q family.

Mayor Monette was still cheering for Stenger and Quiros long after everyone knew that the house of cards was falling. Maybe he was just doing his job, but I would rather have seen some actual contingency planning.

 

[VTKilarney]

Take the waterpark? They claim it's very profitable, I've always had my doubts, and my doubts are bigger now. Anyone ever see Jay release any statistics for annual paid Pump house visits?

As someone with a summer pass (good from May 1 until just before Thanksgiving), it has always appeared to me that the water park is absolutely hemorrhaging money for about eight months per year.

The sad truth is that Jay Peak is a pretty depressing place to be in the summer. The big mistake was not making a "village" with all of these new hotels.

 

[fbrissette]

Take the waterpark? They claim it's very profitable, I've always had my doubts, and my doubts are bigger now. Anyone ever see Jay release any statistics for annual paid Pump house visits?

They've always released the number of total entries during the homeowner meetings but never for 'paid' visits. Same for lift tickets.

Pumphouse is busy/very busy half of the year and has a regular stream of customers year round. They most definitely turn an operating profit if money from free passes comped to hotel guests is properly accounted for. Is it enough to somehow reimburse the EB5 investors somewhere down the line ? I have doubts about that.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

I think so. Since the hotel was built with EB5 money that all passed through the state's regulatory review, it is on the up and up. However, I have a feeling once the connection between Stenger and PeakCM is revealed, the hotel will go into receivership as well.

I'd think that the fact that it hasn't been formally turned over to the owners yet, may also have something to do with it.

 

[fbrissette]

it has always appeared to me that the water park is absolutely hemorrhaging money for about eight months per year.

I strongly disagree with this. There is one dead month in each shoulder season, but I've found the place to be reasonable busy during summer and most fall week-ends.

 

[BenedictGomez]

They've always released the number of total entries during the homeowner meetings but never for 'paid' visits. Same for lift tickets.

Get that number next time if you can.

Pumphouse is busy/very busy half of the year and has a regular stream of customers year round. They most definitely turn an operating profit if money from free passes comped to hotel guests is properly accounted for.

Quite possibly so, but I doubt it's as large as may appear just by looking at it during a Saturday in January. That park must cost a few million to run per year.

Also, remember a lot of visits are heavily discounted (BOGOS, etc..). If you assume $2M to run and an average cost of $29 admission, (this is admittedly worse than back of the envelope) you'd need 70,000 paid visits just to break even on expenses.

 

[xlr8r]

As someone with a summer pass (good from May 1 until just before Thanksgiving), it has always appeared to me that the water park is absolutely hemorrhaging money for about eight months per year.

The sad truth is that Jay Peak is a pretty depressing place to be in the summer. The big mistake was not making a "village" with all of these new hotels.

That is what I always thought was stupid design wise. They should have tried to build up Tramside as a village like Tremblant or Stratton. Keep all the lodging and amenities close together so that everything is easily accessible within walking distance of each other. Instead they spread everything out with half the amenities and a hotel over at Stateside which makes no sense. They should have left Stateside as just a base for day skiers only.

 

[yeggous]

That is what I always thought was stupid design wise. They should have tried to build up Tramside as a village like Tremblant or Stratton. Keep all the lodging and amenities close together so that everything is easily accessible within walking distance of each other. Instead they spread everything out with half the amenities and a hotel over at Stateside which makes no sense. They should have left Stateside as just a base for day skiers only.

The only reason I can think of to split the hotels is F&B revenue. You're going to need a full service restaurant at Stateside even for the day crowd. By putting a hotel on this side now you're guaranteeing them some breakfast and dinner revenue too.