Big Burke announcement

[BenedictGomez]

Do you really believe that they haven't generated several hundred of new jobs at Jay peak?

Correct.

You've got a hotel, a waterpark, and a rink.

As someone who has spent a decent chunk of time in ice houses, I promise you they don't have many full-time employees.

Nor do waterparks require that many folks to run either.

So that leaves you with a moderately-sized hotel.

Hundreds of new full-time sustainable jobs? For the life of me, I don't see how. We sure as hell know it wasn't from hiring additional financial analysts and accountants, that's for sure.

 

[fbrissette]

Sorry, BG but you are wrong on this one. I've seen the transformation fist hand, while it is obvious you've never been to Jay in the summer or set foot in the waterpark.

We're talking a golf course, three hotels, 7 restaurants/snacks, a waterpark, one arcade, one ice rink, three shops, a small grocery/souvenir store that all need more than one shifts for most positions. You now need a larger finance department, a larger marketing department, HR, an army of landscapers/gardeners. You need an IT department, mechanics, electrician etc...

They have 70 weddings planned this summer, hockey tournaments and camps, figure skating camps, they have several daycamps groups every week, music concerts and special events (e.g. porsche event). You need hundreds of people to run all those things.

May be it's possible to do it with 50 people in BG land but not in the real world.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Sorry, BG but you are wrong on this one. I've seen the transformation fist hand, while it is obvious you've never been to Jay in the summer or set foot in the waterpark.

We're talking a golf course, three hotels, 7 restaurants/snacks, a waterpark, one arcade, one ice rink, three shops, a small grocery/souvenir store that all need more than one shifts for most positions. You now need a larger finance department, a larger marketing department, HR, an army of landscapers/gardeners. You need an IT department, mechanics, electrician etc...

They have 70 weddings planned this summer, hockey tournaments and camps, figure skating camps, they have several daycamps groups every week, music concerts and special events (e.g. porsche event). You need hundreds of people to run all those things.

May be it's possible to do it with 50 people in BG land but not in the real world.

Put a number on it then, how many FTE's do you believe Jay Peak has that are 100% attributable to EB-5? It isn't much. Golf course? Very few people, and frankly with the exception of a few folks, they're entirely seasonal anyway.

Here's the reality......the accounting for the jobs created is entirely fraudulent, just look at these posted claims (and keep in mind, most transient construction jobs are not supposed to be counted in the metrics).

Tram House
350 Jobs (How? It's not exactly the MGM Grand in Las Vegas)

Hotel Jay & water park, ice arena, golf course, club house & conf. center
3,500 Jobs (This would rival Fletcher Allen, ~ Vermont's largest employer)

Stateside Hotel/Baselodge
1,340 Jobs (Really?!?!?)

I realize this one isnt Jay Peak, but I'm including it for fun since it's always been my favorite.

AnC Bio
2,300 Jobs (I don't even know where to begin)

 

[fbrissette]

Dude, how many times do I have to say this: I agree with the above.

They created hundreds of jobs nonetheless. The golf course jobs are occupied by people who used to have part time jobs in the winter and now have full time jobs.

Just come one week-end and count the goddam people.

 

[steamboat1]

Sorry, BG but you are wrong on this one. I've seen the transformation fist hand, while it is obvious you've never been to Jay in the summer or set foot in the waterpark.

We're talking a golf course, three hotels, 7 restaurants/snacks, a waterpark, one arcade, one ice rink, three shops, a small grocery/souvenir store that all need more than one shifts for most positions. You now need a larger finance department, a larger marketing department, HR, an army of landscapers/gardeners. You need an IT department, mechanics, electrician etc...

They have 70 weddings planned this summer, hockey tournaments and camps, figure skating camps, they have several daycamps groups every week, music concerts and special events (e.g. porsche event). You need hundreds of people to run all those things.

May be it's possible to do it with 50 people in BG land but not in the real world.

How many jobs do you suspect the new reservoir at Mt. Snow will create at a cost of $30m? Don't forget they use a lot of automated fan guns.

Dr. Jeff in 3-2-1

 

[steamboat1]

$2 million? Try $200 million for a website that doesn't work!

Now back to Burke.

What's a couple of zero's amongst friends

 

[JimG.]

Can't wait for summer.

 

[zeke]

1) I rejected his premise that "several hundreds" of FTEs were created to begin with.

So there's that important fact....., but regardless of that,.

Classic that you rejecting someone's premise is an "important fact"

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

I'm pretty sure any potential owners are going to be well aware of the "Q". But then new ownership may want to come in with their own spin on the branding. Thus the potential for two new logos/names within a year.

Just removing the Qs from everything in the hotel will be a major undertaking (it is literally EVERYWHERE).

And when he says "Burke will be sold first" I'm wondering if he is talking about the hotel or the entire resort (hoping for the latter).

- The room filled with laughter when they discussed how many Q's had been placed all over the hotel and what it would take to remove them all.

:grin:

 

[chrisinvermont]

Classic that you rejecting someone's premise is an "important fact"

The important fact here is there were 700 investors and each is required to create 10 jobs. This is total of 7,000 new Full-time jobs required. If we use the optimistic numbers cited of "several hundred" jobs we are not even 1/10 of the way to the requirement.

The important fact for the NEK is that even if 500 jobs were created, it's only 7.14% of the jobs required and promised. Investors will not be getting green cards and the people of the NEK are not getting the high paid jobs they were promised. No manufacturing or tech jobs as promised for the window manufacturer or bio plant. Only GWB would declare this "mission accomplished"

 

[deadheadskier]

No one's denying that the program falls well short of the FTEs promised. Everyone is in agreement there.

 

[VTKilarney]

The important fact for the NEK is that even if 500 jobs were created, it's only 7.14% of the jobs required and promised. Investors will not be getting green cards and the people of the NEK are not getting the high paid jobs they were promised. No manufacturing or tech jobs as promised for the window manufacturer or bio plant. Only GWB would declare this "mission accomplished"

You are correct except for one thing. For the completed (and open) projects, the investors have been given green cards. Thus BG's point about how absurd the job creation metric is.

 

[cdskier]

You are correct except for one thing. For the completed (and open) projects, the investors have been given green cards. Thus BG's point about how absurd the job creation metric is.

Yup. And this is one of the major flaws in the EB5 program. The investors should not get green cards until they actually create (and prove that they created!) the jobs required. The metrics now are ridiculous.

 

[fbrissette]

Yup. And this is one of the major flaws in the EB5 program. The investors should not get green cards until they actually create (and prove that they created!) the jobs required. The metrics now are ridiculous.

Everything was screwed up to begin with. Creating 10 permanent jobs with a 500k investment is mission impossible, even if you don't pay the 500k back. If it was that easy, the government would do it non-stop. The would recoup their investment through taxes in a few years.

 

[SIKSKIER]

1) I rejected his premise that "several hundreds" of FTEs were created to begin with.

So there's that important fact....., but regardless of that,

2) As I prior noted, when "several thousand" is your bogey, even "several hundred" (which I doubt) is a complete, and utter, failure.

In other words, several hundred, even if true, is economically trivial against plan, trivial against funding, trivial against......this sorry trainwreck.

Wrong wrong 100% wrong.fbrisswette was exactly right.I never said they created hunderds of jobs.Get your facts straight.I said "There are certainly many year round jobs that have been created at Jay through this whole eb-5 debacle".You replied "No there haven't".Not sure how twisted my post into you being correct.

 

[thetrailboss]

Re: FTEs. I think the argument that there needed to be 10 jobs for every investor created at Jay Peak Resort itself is too literal of an interpretation of the provision. There is no dispute that Stenger et al were saying that the job creation included the resort itself, construction jobs, suppliers, etc. As one example: if the Hotel ordered 500 pillows and a pillow maker in Indiana had to hire one more full time person to meet the demand, then that job counts.

I don't think it can be disputed that Jay, which had maybe 30 people in the summer, and now has several hundred year-round has expanded.

 

[VTKilarney]

Posted on Facebook:

I have just been told, at 8:30 this morning, Ary was escorted off the property!

 

[JimG.]

Where's the sunscreen?

 

[from_the_NEK]

Posted on Facebook:

Finally, the exorcism is complete.

I hope someone loaded his Land Rover up with a bunch of Q signs to take with him :smile:.

 

[drjeff]

How many jobs do you suspect the new reservoir at Mt. Snow will create at a cost of $30m? Don't forget they use a lot of automated fan guns.

Dr. Jeff in 3-2-1

The only point of information I'll make here, is that the reservoir itself cost far less than 30 million and is done already and paid for with Peak's own money thus far (part of the roughly 12 million they spent on the project last summer, and not all that was on the reservoir proper, there was about 75000 ft of snowmaking pipe replacement last summer included in that 12 million dollar figure as well) and Peak is expecting to be reimbursed via the EB-5 money they have in escrow awaiting release once the VISA applications are reviewed (this is apparently allowed as well per the EB-5 regulations).

The roughly 30 million figure that is mentioned for the West Lake Project, is the 120 million gallon reservoir, the inflatable dam used to help create a pool of water in the Cold Brook from which will be used to fill the reservoir over time, all the pipes and pumps needed to transport the water in West Lake the roughly 3 miles up the road to Mount Snow and then a major overhaul of how water is transported up the mountain and then down to the various snowmaking trails currently at Mount Snow.

West Lake isn't and never has been just a "30 million dollar reservoir" as you have cited on many occasions.

As for the number of full time jobs it could create, please do remember, those jobs don't just have to be at Mount Snow proper, they can be created within the region. I'm sure I don't have to explain to you how a reliable, dependable snowmaking system adds to the overall economy, not just during the ski season, but year round from people coming back to explore the region in the "offseason" at Killington.

Do I think the total number of jobs eventually created from Mount Snow's EB-5 project will meet target expectations? Nope, never have, and I've posted that on many occasions in various threads about the topic