Big Burke announcement

[VTKilarney]

Don't you think Sugarbush is a good example of this working?

I don't think that a single Vermont EB-5 project has created the jobs that were promised. So Sugarbush is good in the sense that it was a project that didn't go belly up - but bad in the sense that job creation is lacking.

 

[mbedle]

I don't think that a single Vermont EB-5 project has created the jobs that were promised. So Sugarbush is good in the sense that it was a project that didn't go belly up - but bad in the sense that job creation is lacking.

But the method used by Sugarbush didn't require any job creation, only job retention. And the fact that there are more jobs a sugarbush now, compared to back when they used EB-5 funding, seem to me to be icing on the cake.

 

[machski]

EB-5 job creation math has always been very fuzzy. A government program with fuzzy math, say it isn't so. Still, the example here is jobs were created and unfortunately the market didn't support their continued existence​. Risk any investor takes on.

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[VTKilarney]

But the method used by Sugarbush didn't require any job creation, only job retention. And the fact that there are more jobs a sugarbush now, compared to back when they used EB-5 funding, seem to me to be icing on the cake.

Interesting. I was not aware of the details of the Sugarbush project. But would these jobs have really gone away? One has to wonder.

 

[VTKilarney]

EB-5 job creation math has always been very fuzzy. A government program with fuzzy math, say it isn't so. Still, the example here is jobs were created and unfortunately the market didn't support their continued existence​. Risk any investor takes on.

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app

I'm fine with the investor taking on risk. But that ignores that the government is handing out green cards and also taking on risk - that the jobs will really be created for more than a short period of time. In this case, the investors got what they wanted and the government didn't.

It's a deeply flawed program.

 

[thetrailboss]

Never said that it did. I was just pointing out that the EB-5 itself hasn't created the jobs in Vermont that were promised. Some of us Vermonters actually care about jobs.

That is a legitimate point


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[thetrailboss]

But the method used by Sugarbush didn't require any job creation, only job retention. And the fact that there are more jobs a sugarbush now, compared to back when they used EB-5 funding, seem to me to be icing on the cake.

Right. They did the troubled company model.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[cdskier]

Interesting. I was not aware of the details of the Sugarbush project. But would these jobs have really gone away? One has to wonder.

Yea, Sugarbush used the "if we don't do this project we'll lose jobs" method. Of course how you can prove something that didn't happen is always the fun part. There simply is no way to ever know for sure what would have happened if they didn't get the money.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Interesting. I was not aware of the details of the Sugarbush project. But would these jobs have really gone away? One has to wonder.

That's the trendy,new, and bogus, "jobs created or saved" metric, heretofore unknown to the world of economics prior to about 2000 or so, and popularized by The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) . It's a total joke, and there is no better statistic to provide an example of, "fuzzy math" with. Economists don't take it seriously (unless they're the ones on the payroll trying to sell something).

 

[thetrailboss]

Yea, Sugarbush used the "if we don't do this project we'll lose jobs" method. Of course how you can prove something that didn't happen is always the fun part. There simply is no way to ever know for sure what would have happened if they didn't get the money.

Exactly. Win said that the resort was having financial issues and that without the financing for the work that jobs would be lost.

 

[DoublePlanker]

What happens to these regions if the businesses fail? The ski areas and tourism are huge economic drivers.

 

[dlague]

They go bankrupt like Burke did in 1990 and in 1999.

Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[BenedictGomez]

What happens to these regions if the businesses fail? The ski areas and tourism are huge economic drivers.

Contrary to the claims of those pushing these programs, everyone doesn't die in the streets, and children don't go skeletal starving.

 

[thetrailboss]

Bump.

Got some information recently about Burke's plans for this summer. There is $2 million in improvements coming. The first, and obvious, is the new T-Bar. It will have a mid-unload near the current Poma location. The line will require some tree removal. The capacity is going from 250 riders per hour to 1,000 per hour. Leitner-Poma is doing the work. And yes it is a new, NEW lift.

Besides that, there will be blasting for the new lift AND on the Warren's Way. The upper portion is set to be re-engineered and regraded. Some of the double fall lines, particularly on skier's left, will be gone.

McHarg's Cutoff will see new snowmaking on it to allow the racers and general public to use it from the mid-unload.

An on-mountain compressor will have its cooling system repaired. Q let it go bad resulting in putting 140 F air into the system which does not make for good snow.

More fan guns and new tower guns coming.

Water pumping capacity for the upper mountain is increasing by 200% or something like that.

They are once again pushing for a very aggressive opening to show off the new lift. Weather permitting, they want to blow snow in October to have the training hill going in early November. Then it will be Dippers--all the way--before Willoughby. The snowmaking improvements will make opening easier.

And yes, Bill Stenger is acting as a "consultant" in the day-to-day operations of both Jay and Burke.

Stay tuned for other announcements and plans.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

Very nice. Slow but good steady progress and improvements every year without going completely overboard. I'm sure the new "US Ski Team Development Site" status will help bring in more funds.

Now with a a year under the belts of the Receivership, it should be interesting to see how well the Hotel does this winter, and the overall success of the mountain. Weather permitting of course.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

No word on lower mountain lighting for the Terrain Park and perhaps a ski trail off Sherburne quad?

 

[mbedle]

From a recent receivership report: The Receiver reached an agreement with Burke Mountain Academy ("BMA"), the leading ski racing academy which operates on Burke Mountain to reduce by $1 million, the $3 million loan owed to BMA, in exchange for expanding the Easement granted to BMA for its students and staff to continue to train on Burke Mountain. By expanding the Easement, BMA will enlarge its ski program on its allotted trails through increased student enrollment and other means including permitting it to host additional races and guest training, resulting in additional needs for the services provided by the Burke Mountain Hotel.

In connection with their plans to expand racing and ski race training on Burke Mountain, the Receiver and BMA have also entered into an operating agreement with respect to sharing certain revenue and expenses related to ski racing, the use of training lanes and other hotel amenities by third parties brought to the hotel by BMA.

The Receiver and BMA have agreed to replace the 62 year old “Poma” ski lift. BMA’s supporting organization, Burke Racing Inc. (“BRI”) has agreed to purchase and install the ski lift and lease the lift back to the Burke Entities for $1 million in total (which the Receiver intends to prepay from proceeds of the RJ Settlement. This new lift will vastly improve Burke Mountain’s skiing capacity, improve the skiing product and at the same time should increase the demand for hotel rooms thereby making the Burke Hotel more valuable.

Wonder how much that will effect operations at the resort (trails closed, snow making dedication to racing trails)?

 

[thetrailboss]

From a recent receivership report: The Receiver reached an agreement with Burke Mountain Academy ("BMA"), the leading ski racing academy which operates on Burke Mountain to reduce by $1 million, the $3 million loan owed to BMA, in exchange for expanding the Easement granted to BMA for its students and staff to continue to train on Burke Mountain. By expanding the Easement, BMA will enlarge its ski program on its allotted trails through increased student enrollment and other means including permitting it to host additional races and guest training, resulting in additional needs for the services provided by the Burke Mountain Hotel.

In connection with their plans to expand racing and ski race training on Burke Mountain, the Receiver and BMA have also entered into an operating agreement with respect to sharing certain revenue and expenses related to ski racing, the use of training lanes and other hotel amenities by third parties brought to the hotel by BMA.

The Receiver and BMA have agreed to replace the 62 year old “Poma” ski lift. BMA’s supporting organization, Burke Racing Inc. (“BRI”) has agreed to purchase and install the ski lift and lease the lift back to the Burke Entities for $1 million in total (which the Receiver intends to prepay from proceeds of the RJ Settlement. This new lift will vastly improve Burke Mountain’s skiing capacity, improve the skiing product and at the same time should increase the demand for hotel rooms thereby making the Burke Hotel more valuable.

Wonder how much that will effect operations at the resort (trails closed, snow making dedication to racing trails)?

See my post above. Can't recall what the upshot was regarding Trail use.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[thetrailboss]

The lifeline is cut; grading on WW done too.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[Happy2day]

I hope everything gets sorted out really would like to enjoy this trip.