Big Burke announcement

[thetrailboss]

The way they've been leading their boat, I won't even enter the contest, nor would I go if I won.

 

[VTKilarney]

SkiRaceParent,

While I have been saying that we should give Ary a chance to see if he's learned from his mistakes, I don't agree that it is appropriate for one person to dictate what may discussed in an open forum designed for the free exchange of ideas.

I think a more mature response would have been to recognize that Burke should not have let things get to the point where people are complaining. Since there is no crying over spilled milk, I believe that it's best to support the mountain itself and the reality is right now that means supporting Ary so long as he makes changes to earn that trust.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

VTKilarney-

I support your last sentence strongly. Think we are on same page. Sorry if it seemed like I tried to influence what was being discussed, perhaps it was more an attempt to try to redirect the tone. Your last sentence said much better what I failed at saying. Thanks.

 

[thetrailboss]

SkiRaceParent,

While I have been saying that we should give Ary a chance to see if he's learned from his mistakes, I don't agree that it is appropriate for one person to dictate what may discussed in an open forum designed for the free exchange of ideas.

I think a more mature response would have been to recognize that Burke should not have let things get to the point where people are complaining. Since there is no crying over spilled milk, I believe that it's best to support the mountain itself and the reality is right now that means supporting Ary so long as he makes changes to earn that trust.

I agree with this as well. Folks (including me) have legitimate concerns and want nothing more than the mountain to succeed.

 

[VTKilarney]

And to be fair, I think it is reasonable to conclude that one of the major reasons Ary stepped back from the cliff is because there was strong criticism of his poorer decisions. But like I said earlier, I do think that it's fair to see how this develops. The good news is that we have some GREAT snow right now so everything is groovy.

IMHO, the next big test is going to be whether or not Ary repairs relations with Kingdom Trails by the end of March. If he lets that problem drag later into the spring, a lot of people will have already made their summer plans. If there is resentment among the ski community, I get the sense that there is a lot more resentment built up within the biking community. With more and more mountains offering lift served biking each year, this is a very important issue for Burke. This is especially true given that smaller mountains closer to large cities are much more competitive for biking than they are for skiing. The only thing that differentiates Burke is that they are connected to the Kingdom Trail network. Burke's lift served biking can be found in lots of other places - but the Kingdom Trail network is a VERY rare creature.

 

[thetrailboss]

And to be fair, I think it is reasonable to conclude that one of the major reasons Ary stepped back from the cliff is because there was strong criticism of his poorer decisions. But like I said earlier, I do think that it's fair to see how this develops. The good news is that we have some GREAT snow right now so everything is groovy.

IMHO, the next big test is going to be whether or not Ary repairs relations with Kingdom Trails by the end of March. If he lets that problem drag later into the spring, a lot of people will have already made their summer plans. If there is resentment among the ski community, I get the sense that there is a lot more resentment built up within the biking community. With more and more mountains offering lift served biking each year, this is a very important issue for Burke. This is especially true given that smaller mountains closer to large cities are much more competitive for biking than they are for skiing. The only thing that differentiates Burke is that they are connected to the Kingdom Trail network. Burke's lift served biking can be found in lots of other places - but the Kingdom Trail network is a VERY rare creature.

Agree.

I'd also think that the BMA community would be VERY concerned, especially after Q Sr.'s flaming of Don Graham. That was bad.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Agree.

I'd also think that the BMA community would be VERY concerned, especially after Q Sr.'s flaming of Don Graham. That was bad.

Direct relations between BMA and the Quiros' have actually been very good if not excellent, including snowmaking and trail access for training. Obviously the article quotes wrt Mr. Graham were a shock but many apologies have generously and sensitively flowed in from them since. Again, feel like relations are on the mend and have been for awhile, for what it's worth.

 

[thetrailboss]

Direct relations between BMA and the Quiros' have actually been very good if not excellent, including snowmaking and trail access for training. Obviously the article quotes wrt Mr. Graham were a shock but many apologies have generously and sensitively flowed in from them since. Again, feel like relations are on the mend and have been for awhile, for what it's worth.

That's good considering that the "apology" that they posted on VTDigger was a non-apology at best. The public perception is different.

 

[VTKilarney]

I am going to buy a season pass at Burke for my family for the 2014/2015 ski year. I've been trying to stay on top of when the passes are available to take advantage of the "ski the rest of the year" free promotion when they are released.

I emailed Burke about a week ago to ask when they will be available. I never heard back. I just called the mountain today to ask the same question and got an answering machine.

This is not what I would call great customer service - especially when someone is trying to fork over a lot of money.

UPDATE: I tried calling again and got through. I did not get a firm answer, but it was better than no answer at all.

 

[thetrailboss]

I am going to buy a season pass at Burke for my family for the 2014/2015 ski year. I've been trying to stay on top of when the passes are available to take advantage of the "ski the rest of the year" free promotion when they are released.

I emailed Burke about a week ago to ask when they will be available. I never heard back. I just called the mountain today to ask the same question and got an answering machine.

This is not what I would call great customer service - especially when someone is trying to fork over a lot of money.

UPDATE: I tried calling again and got through. I did not get a firm answer, but it was better than no answer at all.

That's what happens when you lay off your marketing department. They tried, but even then I always felt that they never really "got it" with the marketing and sales aspect. Generally if someone is offering to give you money you take it. Whenever there are roadblocks, consumers go elsewhere. It is just too easy. For those in the NEK, like me growing up, you have a lot of choices...Cannon, BW, Jay, hell even the Lyndon Outing Club when there was snow. I knew folks who drove to Sunday River regularly. It is only 90 minutes away.

And I know that some think that we, well, me in particular, have been too negative. This is constructive criticism and if you've been around AZ long enough you know that I grew up skiing at Burke starting in 1990 and from 2005-2008 or so was a passholder who skied there regularly. So I'm obviously passionate about Burke and want to see it succeed.

 

[VTKilarney]

Interestingly enough, it's because I could not get an an answer that I started considering Bretton Woods. I'm still on the fence, whereas I was not even thinking about Bretton Woods a few days ago.

 

[thetrailboss]

Interestingly enough, it's because I could not get an an answer that I started considering Bretton Woods. I'm still on the fence, whereas I was not even thinking about Bretton Woods a few days ago.

FWIW BW has come down a lot in price...at least I think they have. Maybe not anymore.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

hey guys, back after not having been in front of a computer much these past weeks.

looks like Ski Parent and I are on the same page- if you've been to burke, the amount of hubbub on this thread just didnt make sense- not to discount it, I think you are all coming from a very valuable place and are way more right than wrong. just a little too one directional, which is why I opened my mouth.

I skied burke 2x in the last 2 weeks and it was wonderful both times- a couple saturdays ago was hands down the busiest day I have ever seen there, 5-10 minute lines on the upper quad......so I really think that, as i prior stated, the facts about poor skier visits etc. may have been weather related- these folks certainly didnt seem to care that Ary fired the kitchen staff!! Etc. Etc. Further, alot of condo's have gone under agreement in the past couple weeks- people are voting with their wallets and its a positive vote.
Oddly enough I skied at Attitash and Wildcat this past weekend and they were super quiet- I was very shocked considering MA. vacation week and all that, the one day I skied at Burke mid-week had a decent amount of people but nothing crazy, maybe every chairlift full? Its hard for me to guage how busy it is with the new quad to be honest!

if they did have a mass walkout you never would have known it, I had lunch at mid burke one day and dinner at the Tamarack the other and it was seamless and as expected.
My one good source says the hotel is on track, although I am shocked at the number I saw earlier on this thread for what they are seekign for total EB 5 investment. I have never seen more than $180m up to that.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

oh yeah and BW is still super-flat

 

[VTKilarney]

Whether or not there has been too much criticism, you can not get around the fact that management lit the flame. Of all of the lessons, I think that's the most important one to be learned this year.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

alot of advertising on The Point for Burke this past month or so, skiing and apres ski type stuff.

Can anyone tell me what happened to Hannah, who was the voice of burke for years? presume she was let go along with David Gwatkin?

and VT Kilarney, Burke and BW are two totally different skiing experiences- would you really choose where to do the majority of your skiing based on a returned phone call? I get your logic, but BW could give me free tickets and i would still be bored there in an afternoon, no thanks.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Dave Gwatkin hasn't been at Burke for a few years. I think you meant when Joe Kasparzak was let go? Hannah was let go in that purge of upper management prior to the season starting. She is now in the marketing department of the local Passumpsic Saving Bank (at least it is her voice on the PSB radio adds).

 

[billski]

this thread is still Qoing? I thought it would have died out after page 10!

 

[from_the_NEK]

One more post to 1000!

 

[Big Wave Dave]

1000!
thanks From the NEK, too bad, she seemed like a good kid and the right vibe for Burke. glad she is on her feet and still in the area. And yes, I meant Joe. he is still involved with KTA right?

1000 posts on Burke, probably the most press by a significant factor our sleepy NEK friend has ever gotten. Glad to have found the site and added my chirps.