Big Burke announcement

[VTKilarney]

As much as I appreciate upfront honesty from companies, I think you are really reaching if you expect ANY company to answer all of those questions. A lot of the answers would require revealing internal operating info.

He said that he would answer what he could, so I thought I would let Andrew decide his comfort level. Surely some responses are warranted even if all are not. For example, now that Burke has said that construction is indeed starting this summer, it seems quite reasonable for them to confirm that funding is in place for that very construction. You can't have one without the other. Since no rational person could imagine that funding remains a barrier now that they have confirmed that construction is moving forward - I assumed that they would jump on an opportunity share this great news. Frankly, I thought that I was lobbing a big juicy softball for them to hit out of the park. With funding locked up, who really cares if construction starts in a couple of weeks or in a few weeks? I'm thrilled one way or the other!

 

[thetrailboss]

As much as I appreciate upfront honesty from companies, I think you are really reaching if you expect ANY company to answer all of those questions. A lot of the answers would require revealing internal operating info.

+ 1.

Who's going skiing this weekend?

 

[WWF-VT]

Andrew,

Thanks so much for responding. You've got my respect.

I've got a couple of questions:
1) Is the hotel fully funded or does more money need to be raised prior to commencement of construction?
2) What was the specific reason for starting this summer rather than this spring?
3) What is left to occur before Peak CM will get the "green light?"
4) If trips are being taken to Thailand and Vietnam, does this indicate a softening of Chinese demand?
5) How do you explain revenue being up if skier visits were flat and there was deep discounting during the second half of the season?
6) Stenger stated that Burke is 25% funded. What does this mean exactly?
7) If construction does not start this summer, is it reasonable to expect the public to place any trust in future statements from management?

You win the prize for asking the most detailed questions that will likely go unanswered in a ski forum. Why don't you just pick up the phone and ask your questions and what is your reason for needing this information?

 

[Andrew]

@VTKilarney, I'll answer what I can from the couple posts you've got up here. And by all means, if you're in the NEK and want to swing by the mountain for a chat feel free to do so. If the office door's open you're more than welcome to drop in. Actually that goes for anyone in the AZ world who's in the area, please stop by. I always enjoy meeting folks in person.

I can't answer all those questions, but I spoke with some of the EB-5 folks and here's what I can tell you:
- No, the hotel isn't fully funded yet (nor was it forecasted to be at this point) but it is pacing well and there are sufficient funds to begin construction.
- Peak CM is the company that will build the hotel, and as they said in their release, they're ready to go. Nothing's really left to occur, construction will start soon; by 'green light' I just meant that once the snow's melted/ground thawed, everyone looking at the site and saying "Yes, it's time to drop a shovel in the ground."
- Mr. Stenger and Senator Leahy will be going to China on this trip (I found that out just after I posted earlier), and that demand is very strong.
- 25% funded means that we've got 25% of the investors on board to fully complete the project. As mentioned above, construction can begin before the project is fully funded and the project is generating a lot of interest among investors internationally.
- I know I don't really count as the public, but I'd say that yes, we can be trusted. I suppose ultimately time will be the judge of that though.

Ok, so that's what I've got. Again, I'm happy to answer new questions/more questions as I'm able, I'm just not sure there's a whole lot more I can say beyond what's above. We'll certainly keep everyone posted as we get closer to 'shovel-hits-dirt' date.

And please, take me up on the offer to drop by the office if you can. I'll take conversations (ideally on chairlifts when it's 50 and sunny this weekend....) over spreadsheets any time.

 

[Masskier]

@VTKilarney, I'll answer what I can from the couple posts you've got up here. And by all means, if you're in the NEK and want to swing by the mountain for a chat feel free to do so. If the office door's open you're more than welcome to drop in. Actually that goes for anyone in the AZ world who's in the area, please stop by. I always enjoy meeting folks in person.

I can't answer all those questions, but I spoke with some of the EB-5 folks and here's what I can tell you:
- No, the hotel isn't fully funded yet (nor was it forecasted to be at this point) but it is pacing well and there are sufficient funds to begin construction.
- Peak CM is the company that will build the hotel, and as they said in their release, they're ready to go. Nothing's really left to occur, construction will start soon; by 'green light' I just meant that once the snow's melted/ground thawed, everyone looking at the site and saying "Yes, it's time to drop a shovel in the ground."
- Mr. Stenger and Senator Leahy will be going to China on this trip (I found that out just after I posted earlier), and that demand is very strong.
- 25% funded means that we've got 25% of the investors on board to fully complete the project. As mentioned above, construction can begin before the project is fully funded and the project is generating a lot of interest among investors internationally.
- I know I don't really count as the public, but I'd say that yes, we can be trusted. I suppose ultimately time will be the judge of that though.

Ok, so that's what I've got. Again, I'm happy to answer new questions/more questions as I'm able, I'm just not sure there's a whole lot more I can say beyond what's above. We'll certainly keep everyone posted as we get closer to 'shovel-hits-dirt' date.

And please, take me up on the offer to drop by the office if you can. I'll take conversations (ideally on chairlifts when it's 50 and sunny this weekend....) over spreadsheets any time.

Thanks for clarifying things Andrew.

 

[xlr8r]

Andrew, thanks for the responses and clearing the air a bit here. I have a question about progress with on mountain changes in the coming years, more specifically the Willoughby quad. Does Burke plan to leave it as is in its current location, because to me that seems like a waste of a good lift, as it has barely run at all the last 3 years. I know there has been talk of shortening it to create a low intermediate pod on the lower half of the current lift. Is this going to happen soon, It seems like it wouldn't be too hard or expensive to do, and would add a lot to the mountain. It could also add marketing value to the mountain. What is the status/timeline on any changes or relocation of this lift.

 

[deadheadskier]

Any chance that lift gets moved over to the East Bowl? Thought I've seen a lift over there on the drawing board before.

 

[VTKilarney]

Thanks Andrew, that was awesome of you. You've got my respect and then some! (And to everyone else, Andrew is not as shy as some of you thought! He's the man. Don't sell him short!)

Just one final question so I can stop being confused - and to avoid any misinterpretation of your answer. Does the 25% funding figure apply to just the hotel, or to the entirety of the EB-5 development plans (aquatic center, tennis center, etc.)?

Again, thanks for taking the time to discuss this. I'm tremendously impressed with your willingness to do so. As grumpy as I can be, I am happy to give praise when it is deserved - and you deserve it big time.

 

[Smellytele]

Thanks Andrew, that was awesome of you. You've got my respect and then some! (And to everyone else, Andrew is not as shy as some of you thought! He's the man. Don't sell him short!)

Just one final question so I can stop being confused - and to avoid any misinterpretation of your answer. Does the 25% funding figure apply to just the hotel, or to the entirety of the EB-5 development plans (aquatic center, tennis center, etc.)?

Again, thanks for taking the time to discuss this. I'm tremendously impressed with your willingness to do so. As grumpy as I can be, I am happy to give praise when it is deserved - and you deserve it big time.

Sounds like sucking up to get more info... uke:

 

[from_the_NEK]

Any chance that lift gets moved over to the East Bowl? Thought I've seen a lift over there on the drawing board before.

From what I've heard, moving it to East Bowl is more expensive than it is worth. It would require new towers and other upgrades that make it cost prohibitive. Shorting it doesn't require as much of that. IMHO, East Bowl would be better served by a double chair (somewhat similar to Castlerock).

 

[from_the_NEK]

And as VTKilarney and other have said. Thanks for the info Andrew.

 

[VTKilarney]

Sounds like sucking up to get more info... uke:

Why are people here so cynical? I was being quite sincere when I said that I had a lot of respect for his willingness to participate in this discussion. I'm not the type to suck up to get answers (as should be clear by now), but if I was that type I certainly wouldn't do it for a mere clarification.

 

[VTKilarney]

From what I've heard, moving it to East Bowl is more expensive than it is worth. It would require new towers and other upgrades that make it cost prohibitive. Shorting it doesn't require as much of that. IMHO, East Bowl would be better served by a double chair (somewhat similar to Castlerock).

It sounds like there wouldn't be enough savings compared to installing a separate lift. Are there still valid permits for the installation of a lift in the East Bowl area? As much as I would love a lift there, it's hard to justify when there are no lines at the Mid-Burke Express. I wonder if it would attract more skiers to justify the expense. (And believe me, I HATE saying that.)

Andrew, lots of people had a blast skiing the East Bowl trail after it was groomed this year. For those of us who don't mind groomers, thank you!!!

 

[VTKilarney]

Andrew,

You guys should install this for summer operations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj2fnpUgiFg

 

[thetrailboss]

Any chance that lift gets moved over to the East Bowl? Thought I've seen a lift over there on the drawing board before.

From what I've heard, moving it to East Bowl is more expensive than it is worth. It would require new towers and other upgrades that make it cost prohibitive. Shorting it doesn't require as much of that. IMHO, East Bowl would be better served by a double chair (somewhat similar to Castlerock).

Yeah it is a 1989 retrofit of the 1966 Double Chair, so it is quite dated. I know that if they do move it or alter it then it becomes subject to more safety upgrades. The best thing would be to leave it (this lift RARELY had wind problems) or shorten it for the new trail pod.

 

[VTKilarney]

Andrew,

If you are still in the mood to answer questions... Is there anything contemplated to improve the run from the top of the Sherburne Express to the Mid-Burke Express and/or High Meadow Pass?

 

[ChicoKat]

I have been following this thread closely. Would anybody have any information on the status of the relationship with the Kingdom Trails Association? I hope ownership sees the value of this relationship. My wife and I had never skied at Burke. We spent our honeymoon in East Burke riding the trails and paddling Lake Willoughby. Fell in love with East Burke. We eventually made our way to the downhill runs on Burke last summer and that convinced us to come back and ski it. We visited twice this year. I think a working relationship with the MTB community is in the best interest of all parties. MTB'ers ski and skiers MTB. Hope they can come to an agreement. They will see a big drop off in riders on the mountain if they are a stand alone destination.

 

[thetrailboss]

I have been following this thread closely. Would anybody have any information on the status of the relationship with the Kingdom Trails Association? I hope ownership sees the value of this relationship. My wife and I had never skied at Burke. We spent our honeymoon in East Burke riding the trails and paddling Lake Willoughby. Fell in love with East Burke. We eventually made our way to the downhill runs on Burke last summer and that convinced us to come back and ski it. We visited twice this year. I think a working relationship with the MTB community is in the best interest of all parties. MTB'ers ski and skiers MTB. Hope they can come to an agreement. They will see a big drop off in riders on the mountain if they are a stand alone destination.

From what I've been hearing Q wants to compete with KT for whatever reason (?)

 

[from_the_NEK]

Here is a re-post from Burke's HSQ construction thread ( http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...-and-Other-Improvements/page4?highlight=burke ). It is a little dated but I haven't had time to rebuild everything in Google Earth since my computer crashed while back:

I've also been messing around in Google Earth with what Burke would look like at full lift buildout (assuming the West Bowl is built out 50 years from now ).
The Purple lines are exisiting lifts.
Green and white polygons are where I would put trails (if I had too). Ignore the skinny white one that cuts across the East Bowl lift, it's the current East Bowl runout trail.

The Red lines are lifts that haven't been built yet. From left to right they are:

East Bowl lift (planned) - 1400 ft vert

Mid-Burke Express (under construction) - 1565 ft vert

West Peak lift (theoretical) - 1565 ft vert (the top 700 ft avg 48% slope [compare to the top 700 ft section of the Castlerock liftline is 44% :grin:]).

----Discuss-----

 

[from_the_NEK]

As far as permitting for an East Bowl lift. I don't think there is anything specific, but the Ginn master Act 250 plan that included the lift was approved in 2009-2010.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7C0206-13/Master Plan.pdf