Big Burke announcement

[from_the_NEK]

It's too bad that the plans to expand/improve the Lyndon Airport never happened....though some may disagree.

Raising my hand.

The terrain around the Caledonia County State Airport does not lend itself well to expansion. The longest runway they could put up there is 4500' and that would require A LOT of blasting, re-routing of roads, and buyouts of surrounding farmers.

The "improvements" that were going to be made included a rotating beacon light. That thing would have been visible from nearly everywhere in the upper Passumpsic River basin. I saw the tests and it wasn't pretty. Pudding Hill sits smack in the middle of the basin and there is nothing to stop the light from flashing all over the place. Sitting on Darling Hill watching the sunset with a bright light blinking in your eyes every 5-10 seconds sounds like a great tourist attraction :-?.

 

[thetrailboss]

Raising my hand.

The terrain around the Caledonia County State Airport does not lend itself well to expansion. The longest runway they could put up there is 4500' and that would require A LOT of blasting, re-routing of roads, and buyouts of surrounding farmers.

The "improvements" that were going to be made included a rotating beacon light. That thing would have been visible from nearly everywhere in the upper Passumpsic River basin. I saw the tests and it wasn't pretty. Pudding Hill sits smack in the middle of the basin and there is nothing to stop the light from flashing all over the place. Sitting on Darling Hill watching the sunset with a bright light blinking in your eyes every 5-10 seconds sounds like a great tourist attraction :-?.

But are those wind turbines with beacons on them any better?

 

[from_the_NEK]

But are those wind turbines with beacons on them any better?

I wouldn't say they are better but they are not nearly as bright. The red lights don't add much light pollution to the sky other than single points of light.
The rotating beacon is a powerful concentrated beam that you can see rotate through the air even if you can't actually see the light bulb.

 

[VTKilarney]

The Newport airport grant is independent from Stenger and Quiros. The grant is a federal grant that was applied for by the state's aviation program administrator. Nonetheless, it is good news and it is good for Stenger and Quiros' plans - and it would not surprise me if they assisted in getting the grant.

I definitely agree that the airport land in Coventry is much better suited for expansion than Lyndon.

 

[thetrailboss]

The Newport airport grant is independent from Stenger and Quiros. The grant is a federal grant that was applied for by the state's aviation program administrator. Nonetheless, it is good news and it is good for Stenger and Quiros' plans - and it would not surprise me if they assisted in getting the grant.

I definitely agree that the airport land in Coventry is much better suited for expansion than Lyndon.

I understand that on paper it is independent, but I think it is connected to what Stenger/Q want to do.

 

[VTKilarney]

I understand that on paper it is independent, but I think it is connected to what Stenger/Q want to do.

I agree. Oddly enough, I was looking for information on the Flight Design factory in Coventry. As best as I can figure out, there is a dealer in Connecticut that sells the planes, but Quiros has the right to start a manufacturing branch for the planes in the USA. I couldn't find anything at all except for the original articles from a couple of years ago, so I don't know what the status is.

The plane that they are going to manufacture is a REALLY nice plane in the Light Sport Aircraft category.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree. Oddly enough, I was looking for information on the Flight Design factory in Coventry. As best as I can figure out, there is a dealer in Connecticut that sells the planes, but Quiros has the right to start a manufacturing branch for the planes in the USA. I couldn't find anything at all except for the original articles from a couple of years ago, so I don't know what the status is.

The plane that they are going to manufacture is a REALLY nice plane in the Light Sport Aircraft category.

Dumb question: is the aviation industry doing that well? And is this a recreational plane as opposed to a commercial plane?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[VTKilarney]

Dumb question: is the aviation industry doing that well? And is this a recreational plane as opposed to a commercial plane?

It's a very recreational plane. Slow and stable. The industry is littered with losers. It's a EXTREMELY risky place to invest. But... there are TONS of old planes out there since nothing sold in the 80's and 90's. So eventually the demand will be there when the used planes become too used. (Planes can last a surprisingly long time, so we aren't quite there yet - but we are close.)

The Light Sport Aircraft segment of the market was supposed to lead to affordable planes, but it never really panned out. The base price of the plane that Quiros will manufacture is $144,000. And nobody gets away with just the base price. When the FAA changed their rules to create the Light Sport Aircraft segment, they didn't envision that the planes would cost nearly that much. On the other hand, a Cessna 172 is $300,000 or thereabouts.

I suppose it's possible that Quiros will merely be a sub-contractor to manufacture the plane in the USA and will not have nearly the risk of the parent company. I am not sure how that is going to be set up. Manufacturing here is important since these planes don't cross the Atlantic easily at all. I doubt they can be modified to fly across and even if they could it's a massively expensive undertaking.

Light Sport Aircraft have to be under a (light) weight and cannot travel at more than 138 mph in level flight. They can only have two seats.

 

[zeke]

No need to be a sub-contractor when daddy has deep pockets

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/20/quiros-buys-light-plane-manufacturer/


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[LONGBOARDR]

No need to be a sub-contractor when daddy has deep pockets

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/20/quiros-buys-light-plane-manufacturer/


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

They look to be awesome planes with a incredible avionics package. I understand that the powerplant (rotax) is now available as FAA certified. I used to fly an early version of the 912 in a Pulsar. Great engine for a composite aircraft. Right now the planes are designed in Germany and built in Ukraine. I believe that there is only minor assembly in the US. Likely wings props, landing gear. Good luck to them, as mentioned previously the plane business is pretty tough unless your name is Boeing.

 

[mister moose]

The "improvements" that were going to be made included a rotating beacon light. That thing would have been visible from nearly everywhere in the upper Passumpsic River basin. I saw the tests and it wasn't pretty. Pudding Hill sits smack in the middle of the basin and there is nothing to stop the light from flashing all over the place. Sitting on Darling Hill watching the sunset with a bright light blinking in your eyes every 5-10 seconds sounds like a great tourist attraction :-?.

This has got to be one of the most over stated objections I have seen in a while. Airport rotating beacons are the same as lighthouses. They are bright enough to see if you look right at them (and wait for the blink) but that's it. I have never heard anyone who lives on the coast say "AUGGGHHH MY EYES! I just looked at a lighthouse 3 miles away!!!"

Also, an aviation beacon shines up, at around 4 degrees. The bright spot is meant for airplanes, not people or homes. The amount of light pollution in my experience is less than surrounding car dealer lots or street lights, and most people don't have direct sight lines to the beacon .

 

[Masskier]

[h=3]Orleans County Leads State in Job Creation for First Time in Vermont History[/h]
http://new.pitchengine.com/pitches/a5da17a5-68f1-4b4b-8122-1197d68734cd

 

[machski]

The Rotax 912 has been an FAA certified engine since the late 90's, one of its first certified applications was in the Diamond DA-20 Katana. I would have to say Newport has the better expansion ability. Lyndonville sits on a hill with rolling terrain off the field in all directions. Hope it works out, they need to target a runway extension to at least 5500' to be viable for most jet traffic, 6000' preferred min for winter runway ops.

 

[the original trailboss]

Orleans County Leads State in Job Creation for First Time in Vermont History


http://new.pitchengine.com/pitches/a5da17a5-68f1-4b4b-8122-1197d68734cd

The real questions of "what kind of jobs ?" and "what do they pay ?" are not answered here...................

 

[VTKilarney]

I can answer at least one question regarding the type of jobs. The press release (note: this was not an article) says this:
“Seven or eight years ago, we had approximately 250 people or so working at Jay Peak. Today that number’s over 1,500."

Stenger previously stated that "more than" 250 employees receive benefits and, during the summer, there are "400+" employees working at Jay. So probably slightly under 1,250 of those 1,500 jobs are part-time with no benefits. Of the 1,500+ total jobs, slightly less than 850 appear to be winter-only.

I'm not saying that this is worse than before EB-5, but hopefully this puts things into context. It would be really great to see more summer infrastructure so some of the winter-only employees can find work during the summer. The lake is a under-tapped attraction that could lead to a boost in summer employment if developed properly.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

 

[from_the_NEK]

Probably a GREAT view from the summit this morning.

 

[from_the_NEK]

This has got to be one of the most over stated objections I have seen in a while. Airport rotating beacons are the same as lighthouses. They are bright enough to see if you look right at them (and wait for the blink) but that's it. I have never heard anyone who lives on the coast say "AUGGGHHH MY EYES! I just looked at a lighthouse 3 miles away!!!"

Also, an aviation beacon shines up, at around 4 degrees. The bright spot is meant for airplanes, not people or homes. The amount of light pollution in my experience is less than surrounding car dealer lots or street lights, and most people don't have direct sight lines to the beacon .

Comparing it to lighthouses is silly. Even though they are generally the same thing (navigational aids), virtually all light houses have been in their current location for at least 100 years and are on coastlines that also have a lot of other lights along the shore. A lot of lighthouses have even been turned off as they are no longer necessary.

On the flip side, in a rural area of NE VT that has relatively few lights, especially a "beacon shines up", some of us like the fact that there isn't a big rotating light zipping around the basin every few seconds. The location of the airport on a low ridge in the middle of the Passumpsic River basin makes it extremely visible. A temporary beacon was brought in to demo the light to the community. Prior to the demo there were quite a few people that were for expansion at the airport, including myself. But seeing the way the light really messed up the nighttime sky in the area, turned me against it.

The point is the Caledonia airport is small and would be very difficult to expand. The proposal of adding a big unattractive rotating beacon that would be on all night and only benefit a VERY small number of flight was ultimately shot down. Many were in favor of a pilot activated light. However, the FAA would not allow it.

 

[thetrailboss]

[h=3]Orleans County Leads State in Job Creation for First Time in Vermont History[/h]
http://new.pitchengine.com/pitches/a5da17a5-68f1-4b4b-8122-1197d68734cd

Too bad that Burke is in Caledonia County.

 

[Masskier]

Too bad that Burke is in Caledonia County.

Why is it bad that Burke is in Caledonia County?