Burton's "Poach for Freedom" Contest

[riverc0il]

Sled points out an interesting dichotomy within the sliding world and that is snowboarding wants to be accepted and mainstream but also wants to hold onto its origins as an upstart alternative deviant culture. Kind of like so called "alternative" music going mainstream in the 90s. It is kind of hard to hold onto the heart of an "image" when you have already "sold out" but then you make people that buy into the "marketing" or "image" look like tools. This happens all the time but it is always interesting to see it garbled up and swallowed whole.

 

[JimG.]

In the end, no matter what kind of sliding tool is attached to your feet, it's just sliding around on snow.

I believe the ban gives those areas that enforce them free marketing...it may have started because of some ideal, but in the end it boils down to getting attention.

There is no doubt there is a group of skiers who want places without snowboarders. And that offends some (many) who snowboard.

But behaving like an ass does not win any friends. So it really is just another play for attention.

 

[56fish]

But behaving like an ass does not win any friends. So it really is just another play for attention.

Yep....and, great marketing 4 all concerned.

:beer:

 

[DJC]

Thanks to all for the welcome! I will certainly post Burton's reply...if i actually get one...

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Sled points out an interesting dichotomy within the sliding world and that is snowboarding wants to be accepted and mainstream but also wants to hold onto its origins as an upstart alternative deviant culture. Kind of like so called "alternative" music going mainstream in the 90s. It is kind of hard to hold onto the heart of an "image" when you have already "sold out" but then you make people that buy into the "marketing" or "image" look like tools. This happens all the time but it is always interesting to see it garbled up and swallowed whole.

Once again Steve, you found my point through my garbled ramblings.

I think the irony is, that if snowboarders had taken this tact 25 years ago and tried to take the snowsports world by force, I doubt we'd be having this conversation today. There might be 4 areas that permitted snowboarding and the rest would still ban it.

As Jim points out, it's all about sliding and having fun. Let's try not to lose sight of that, in spite of a big manufacturer's effort to say otherwise.

Again, an outstanding first post. Welcome.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

>>>Bump<<<

Funny how this thread ran it's course here and stayed civil and it turned into a flame war, locked, revived, soon to be locked again on SJ. Speacks to the quality over here, I guess,

 

[bvibert]

>>>Bump<<<

Funny how this thread ran it's course here and stayed civil and it turned into a flame war, locked, revived, soon to be locked again on SJ. Speacks to the quality over here, I guess,

I don't go over there too often, but it seems like every time I hear about it there's some sort of huge battle going on...

 

[riverc0il]

There have been a few locks on AZ before.....

Its internet forums. People get emotional, things get out of hand, threads get locked. It happens.

 

[bvibert]

There have been a few locks on AZ before.....

Its internet forums. People get emotional, things get out of hand, threads get locked. It happens.

True, I guess I would only hear about the controversial threads over there. I'm sure there's plenty of civil ones too....

 

[SnowRider]

From a riders point of view I want to say a couple things.
-At MRG they wern't that out of control...they were a little rowdy but nothing to outrageous
-Then things got out of hand and they became complete assholes (the girls at tahoes i think?)
-The people were different every time I believe
-And lastly sometimes they were out of control. Other times they were rowdy but not out of control
-And can I say that I personally found the MRG one kind of funny because all of the disscusions we have on here about it

 

[DJC]

From a riders point of view I want to say a couple things.
-At MRG they wern't that out of control...they were a little rowdy but nothing to outrageous
-Then things got out of hand and they became complete assholes (the girls at tahoes i think?)
-The people were different every time I believe
-And lastly sometimes they were out of control. Other times they were rowdy but not out of control
-And can I say that I personally found the MRG one kind of funny because all of the disscusions we have on here about it

Funny cause I was laughing at it during the MRG thing, but then the girls at taos or alta (can't remember which) were totally out of line.

 

[catskills]

Lots of good posts here. The new guy DJC and seasoned veteran Sled. The whole poaching thing is funny and no big deal. Personally myself and most people in snow sports don't care what you have on your feet sliding down the mountain. The important part is your outside having fun, maybe soaking up some rays or enjoying a powder day.

Burton showing videos of snowboarders hassling skiers in a beginner area is really low. This makes Jake Burton lower than Whale Pooh. Jake was recently elected to the Hall of Fame a few months back. After showing videos of riders hassling skiers in a beginner area they should kick Jake's a$$ out.

I would have loved to have listened in on the Burton marketing strategy meeting when they came up with this idea. :smash:

I hope this backfires on Burton. It would be great if other snowboarding companies increase market share and Jake Burton is put out of business. Just to clarify, I don't want any less snowboarders on the hill, I just want Jake Burton to go away.

 

[Method9455]

It won't backfire on Burton. The people who are pissed about it are not the ones they are trying to sell to. That guy who said he had the triumph and the custom x and wouldn't buy any more product, I see where you are coming, but if you are buying a triumph and a custom x you are obviously at the very high end of the skill range and a free rider. Try a GNU Altered Genetics, trust me you will be much happier. Or an Arbor A-Frame or Crossbow. All handmade by real legit companies, don't even bother with Burton ever again. That being said, Burton sells 90% of their boards in the custom or lower range, they want to sell to people who are beginner/intermediate and what the "snowboaridng" image. Burton is the most main stream of the snowboarding companies so they get all those people to jump on their gear so they can be "core", which compared to the Solomon or K2 rental board they learned on, is a big step up. By the time you can feel the difference in boards, you will be better off on a Rome, Arbor, Gnu, Lib Tech, Santa Cruz, Battaleon, maybe even a K2, Ride or Salomon from the high end.

That being said, I don't really have a problem with the video or the campaign. Sure those girls at DV where dicks. But the rest of it was just funny. And you know what? I've seen asshole moves by skiers and snowboarders all the time. Skiers complain snowboarders sit on their trails, fine at least you can see them when you are coming down. I'm going to complain about skiers skiing through terrain parks in all the blind spots. Maybe they don't know that it is a danger just like the snowboarders don't know sitting in the middle of the trail is a danger, but it slices both ways.

The video will not change the policies at the mountains, no amount of poaching will. The resorts differentiate themselves by not allowing snowboarders, there are people who will go there solely because of that. There is a reason two of them are in the ultra competitive Utah market. So what happens here? Burton gets free marketing, the resorts get a little exposure and a little money, some hotels might get a little money, a few snowboarders get 5,000, and we get to watch funny videos. What is the harm? Its not like they're giving $5000 to the person who spray paints the burton logo on top of the alta lodge.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

I do have to say, I've never bothered to look at the videos...I don't need to. My objection is to Burton sinking to such low's to try to "increase shareholder value". Oh, wait, I'm in recovery now, I'm not a marketing sleezebag anymore. I'll translate to English: "Increase shareholder value" = Suck money out of any source possible for the shareholders at everyone else's expense.

I can talk and post about how stupid Burton's move is, but really, my opinion doesn't count for jack. I ski. I won't have any effect on ol' Jake's bottom line. I'm just glad to hear that so many boarders are even more offended than I am.

 

[dmc]

This makes Jake Burton lower than Whale Pooh. Jake was recently elected to the Hall of Fame a few months back. After showing videos of riders hassling skiers in a beginner area they should kick Jake's a$$ out.

Jake Burton is a great man who's done some great and kind things for people..
He deserves to be on the wall...

this isn't such a big deal...

JMHO

 

[JesusBuiltMyCrotchRod]

Jake Burton is a great man who's done some great and kind things for people..
He deserves to be on the wall...

this isn't such a big deal...

JMHO

When did you start snowboarding? There's a lot of history behind the Burton brand...some good, and some very bad........Many of us started in the early 80's and on grass-roots levels helped resorts realize that snowboarding has a place on their mountains. Many of us were persecuted in the 80's because the perception of snowboarding was so negative and resorts did not want to deal with us or more accurately the stereotype.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, this is nothing more than a publicity stunt by a company that has lost its core image. This video and this marketing campaign is amatuer and has done nothing for the progression of our sport.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

WAKE UP PEOPLE, this is nothing more than a publicity stunt by a company that has lost its core image. This video and this marketing campaign is amatuer and has done nothing for the progression of our sport.

While the in the big scheme of things, this campaign is lame and small time, but why should Burton try to gain market share by driving the sport backwards?

In the eighties, I'll admit, I thought snowboarders were an annoyance. In generalThey sat in the middle of the trail, they didn't ride with any rhythm. They didn't follow a line, so they were hard to pass and they fell on the unload ramp a lot. Many of them were rather obnoxious. Yes, I'm stereotyping.

In 1990-91, fresh out of college, saving for a house, I had no money to ski. I skied 4 days that season, all 4 on Mount Washington, all four with two snowboarders. My first run that season was in February in a storm from Centerheadwall into the chute. These guys were on big boards with Asolo Ice climbing boots. They absolutely ripped it up. It completely changed my opinion of snowboarding.

The sport has come a long way. Why does someone at Burton think that increasing a rift between skiers and riders that so many have fought hard to close so they can sell a few more boards in the short term is a good idea?

 

[catskills]

Jake Burton is a great man who's done some great and kind things for people..
He deserves to be on the wall...

this isn't such a big deal...

JMHO

dmc if you love snowboarding as much as I think you do, then you better be writing Jake Burton to remove the Deer Valley video of snowboarders hassling skiers off their Corporate money making web site. Your either in favor of this kind of behavior or your not. Which is it? Make a stand. This is no joke.

 

[OldsnowboarderME]

dmc if you love snowboarding as much as I think you do, then you better be writing Jake Burton to remove the Deer Valley video of snowboarders hassling skiers off their Corporate money making web site. Your either in favor of this kind of behavior or your not. Which is it? Make a stand. This is no joke.

Sorry but I am not going to take a seat at the back of the bus no how good it makes somebody feels... there is no good reason for the exclusion ... period.

 

[DJC]

It won't backfire on Burton. The people who are pissed about it are not the ones they are trying to sell to. That guy who said he had the triumph and the custom x and wouldn't buy any more product, I see where you are coming, but if you are buying a triumph and a custom x you are obviously at the very high end of the skill range and a free rider. Try a GNU Altered Genetics, trust me you will be much happier. Or an Arbor A-Frame or Crossbow. All handmade by real legit companies, don't even bother with Burton ever again. That being said, Burton sells 90% of their boards in the custom or lower range, they want to sell to people who are beginner/intermediate and what the "snowboaridng" image. Burton is the most main stream of the snowboarding companies so they get all those people to jump on their gear so they can be "core", which compared to the Solomon or K2 rental board they learned on, is a big step up. By the time you can feel the difference in boards, you will be better off on a Rome, Arbor, Gnu, Lib Tech, Santa Cruz, Battaleon, maybe even a K2, Ride or Salomon from the high end.

That being said, I don't really have a problem with the video or the campaign. Sure those girls at DV where dicks. But the rest of it was just funny. And you know what? I've seen asshole moves by skiers and snowboarders all the time. Skiers complain snowboarders sit on their trails, fine at least you can see them when you are coming down. I'm going to complain about skiers skiing through terrain parks in all the blind spots. Maybe they don't know that it is a danger just like the snowboarders don't know sitting in the middle of the trail is a danger, but it slices both ways.

The video will not change the policies at the mountains, no amount of poaching will. The resorts differentiate themselves by not allowing snowboarders, there are people who will go there solely because of that. There is a reason two of them are in the ultra competitive Utah market. So what happens here? Burton gets free marketing, the resorts get a little exposure and a little money, some hotels might get a little money, a few snowboarders get 5,000, and we get to watch funny videos. What is the harm? Its not like they're giving $5000 to the person who spray paints the burton logo on top of the alta lodge.

Good advice from both you and DMC regarding other manufacturers. I will def. broaden my horizons on my next purchase.