Burton's "Poach for Freedom" Contest

[riverc0il]

I am not saying "poaching" is bad. As my previous comments suggest, I would be cheering on snowboarders that hiked up for a run at a place like MRG. That type of spirit is cool, I dig that. The spirit of the campaign is what I am taking issue with and suggesting that others would do the same. This is not a board versus ski thing, right? I think we can generally most all of us agree this is a perception thing. So focusing on the perceptions, that campaign only reinforced perceptions. Poaching has nothing to do with the "campaign" but is rather just a component. The spirit of the campaign is what people will remember, and it is not friendly but rather somewhat hostile. It has nothing to do with poaching, which has been happening for some time now regardless.

 

[AdironRider]

Perhaps it's the persons on the boards that these ski areas don't want. There is a lot of truth to stereotyping as much as people want to say otherwise. Profiling works and thats a fact.

Snowboards ride over powder and pack it down, unlike skies that cut thru it. How many times do you see a boarder side slipping a chute pushing all the powder out as he thinks he's a bad ass dude ripping it up? No grooming allowed. As Alf Engen said (in his unique accent) "Snowboarding will never be allowed at Alta. It ruins the snow."

Your statement is the exact reason I support this campaign.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Im not going to try and argue my stance, as I know its going to fall on deaf ears. But everyone freaking out about a snowboarder slapping someone on the ass is overkill. THEYRE ENDANGERING SKIERS!!! is a bunch of crap and you know it. They didnt hurt anyone, nor are they promoting the hurting of anyone.

OK, for the sake of civil debate, I'll grant assume that's correct.

The whole stance of the campaign is that these resorts are saying F you to snowboarders, so Burton is promoting the notion of saying F you to the resort. You think sending them a kind letter is going to do anything? No. The point of the campaign is to try and innundate these resorts as a way to try and force them to change, similar to a union going on strike, picket lines, etc. force companies to change theyre ways. Snowboarders cant boycott these resorts, so this is a good way of getting theyre message directly to the resorts themselves. People can talk about it online, or in public forum, but it doesnt change anything, By bringing snowboarding to the resorts by poaching, they attack the problem directly, in an arena that promotes the problem. Think the freedom rides through the south... Northerners held debates, what have you, but by protesting directly in the face of the problem, changes were made. Not a direct correlation I know, but you get the drift.

As a union member (with a no strike clause, for what it's worth), I'll leave that comment aside.

My issue is this: This has nothing to do with "Equal access". This has to do with Burton's image and market share. And now that snowboarding has been generally accepted by the skiing public, Burton is willing to sacrifice that acceptance by promoting bad behavior to gain, for the short term, more market share.

I woder what Jake would say if the three resorts ('cause it won't happen at MRG in my lifetime) said, sure, we welcome snowboarders, just not on Burton equipment?

 

[campgottagopee]

I am not saying "poaching" is bad. As my previous comments suggest, I would be cheering on snowboarders that hiked up for a run at a place like MRG. That type of spirit is cool, I dig that. The spirit of the campaign is what I am taking issue with and suggesting that others would do the same. This is not a board versus ski thing, right? I think we can generally most all of us agree this is a perception thing. So focusing on the perceptions, that campaign only reinforced perceptions. Poaching has nothing to do with the "campaign" but is rather just a component. The spirit of the campaign is what people will remember, and it is not friendly but rather somewhat hostile. It has nothing to do with poaching, which has been happening for some time now regardless.

Well said----like my first post regarding this topic---"nothing good will come out of this" and I think re-reading thru all of this is starting to prove that.

 

[Method9455]

Perhaps it's the persons on the boards that these ski areas don't want. There is a lot of truth to stereotyping as much as people want to say otherwise. Profiling works and thats a fact.

Snowboards ride over powder and pack it down, unlike skies that cut thru it. How many times do you see a boarder side slipping a chute pushing all the powder out as he thinks he's a bad ass dude ripping it up? No grooming allowed. As Alf Engen said (in his unique accent) "Snowboarding will never be allowed at Alta. It ruins the snow."

Thats a little ridiculous. Why is it that all the skis sold in the last few years are super fat skis? Not to cut THROUGH powder thats for sure. When you have two skis that are 70% the width of a snowboard anyway, is there really that much of a difference?

And really, how many times HAVE you seen a snowboarder side slipping through a shoot and thinking he is a badass? 3? 6? And skiers side slipping? Someone biting off more than they can chew is not a snowboard specific issue.

Besides most people on boards these days aspire to ride half pipe and do rails and jumps, they have never even heard of a chute.

The only place skis do something snowboards can't is skinning uphill.

I can do both, I like both, and each have their places. Give me skis on a day when it is icy. Give me a board on a powder day. I'll take a board in the park, and either on steep corduroy. When I'm screwing around with friends I want a board. When I am hiking I want skis. Skis in the bumps, board in the trees. In the end it is just a different way of enjoying it.

Try it sometime, you will be suprised how much you like it. Besides snowboarding is way safer anyway.

 

[campgottagopee]

Try it sometime, you will be suprised how much you like it. Besides snowboarding is way safer anyway.

I'm being serious when I sak you this. How/why is boarding safer that 2 planks??? I've heard that said before but I don't see how it can be. I ski w/ some very good boarders and when they bite it they go down HARD!!! So how is it safer???

 

[Method9455]

Because your feet are locked in. The strongest polygon is a triangle. Between your hips, your feet, and your board you get a triangle. So long as everything is adjusted right no matter how much you tumble you can't hurt your knees. On skis, the better you are, the higher your DIN. So when you fall/tumble you get these great lever arms ripping your knees to shreds. On a snowboard most injuries are wrist, arm, shoulder. All fairly repairable and not that important for riding. On skiing all the injuries are knee injuries - crucial to skiing.

 

[campgottagopee]

Because your feet are locked in. The strongest polygon is a triangle. Between your hips, your feet, and your board you get a triangle. So long as everything is adjusted right no matter how much you tumble you can't hurt your knees. On skis, the better you are, the higher your DIN. So when you fall/tumble you get these great lever arms ripping your knees to shreds. On a snowboard most injuries are wrist, arm, shoulder. All fairly repairable and not that important for riding. On skiing all the injuries are knee injuries - crucial to skiing.

I'm not sure I buy that one. The guys I've seen go down on a board really knock the crap out of there head. In fact, one dude knocked himself out. I've had 2 injuries while skiing (knock on wood here) and neither of them were to my knees. Blew a disc in my back and broke my thumb, so i guess not all skiing injuries are to the knees afterall.

 

[JimG.]

I woder what Jake would say if the three resorts ('cause it won't happen at MRG in my lifetime) said, sure, we welcome snowboarders, just not on Burton equipment?

Good one sled.

 

[JimG.]

Thats a little ridiculous. Why is it that all the skis sold in the last few years are super fat skis? Not to cut THROUGH powder thats for sure. When you have two skis that are 70% the width of a snowboard anyway, is there really that much of a difference?

And really, how many times HAVE you seen a snowboarder side slipping through a shoot and thinking he is a badass? 3? 6? And skiers side slipping? Someone biting off more than they can chew is not a snowboard specific issue.

Besides most people on boards these days aspire to ride half pipe and do rails and jumps, they have never even heard of a chute.

The only place skis do something snowboards can't is skinning uphill.

I can do both, I like both, and each have their places. Give me skis on a day when it is icy. Give me a board on a powder day. I'll take a board in the park, and either on steep corduroy. When I'm screwing around with friends I want a board. When I am hiking I want skis. Skis in the bumps, board in the trees. In the end it is just a different way of enjoying it.

Try it sometime, you will be suprised how much you like it. Besides snowboarding is way safer anyway.

Good comments here too.

I think it goes back to what riverc0il wrote...the issue isn't really about snowboarding or skiing, it's about acting like an asshole.

I don't like asshole skiers any better than asshole snowboarders.

 

[artooman]

I know there are a lot of snowboarders who disapprove of this. I know that not all snowboarders are moronic jerks who want to rebel against whatever. But if Burton *does* make a lot money off of this, then it will lend a lot of credence to those who don't like snowboarders as a group. It will validate a lot of generalizations about snowboarding. This whole thing is really stupid.

With that said, I hope Burton goes out of business so we can all go on our merry way.

I am a skier. I want to try snowboarding. This definitely helps make my decision about where I will look for a board (not Burton).

 

[awf170]

Correct way to poach MRG:

1. Wait for biggest powder day of the year

2. Hike to the top of Stark Mt. before the lifts open.

3. Wait until the single is fully loaded, but no one has gotten off yet.

4. Get first tracks on Chute to liftline, with about 10 other snowboarders. You will have a full audience of skiers all wanting first tracks under the lift. They will be very happy.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Correct way to poach MRG:

1. Wait for biggest powder day of the year

2. Hike to the top of Stark Mt. before the lifts open.

3. Wait until the single is fully loaded, but no one has gotten off yet.

4. Get first tracks on Chute to liftline, with about 10 other snowboarders. You will have a full audience of skiers all wanting first tracks under the lift. They will be very happy.

Haha I would love to see it and I think the whole campaign is great viral marketing for Burton..:beer:

 

[Method9455]

I'm not sure I buy that one. The guys I've seen go down on a board really knock the crap out of there head. In fact, one dude knocked himself out. I've had 2 injuries while skiing (knock on wood here) and neither of them were to my knees. Blew a disc in my back and broke my thumb, so i guess not all skiing injuries are to the knees afterall.

I didn't mean ALL I'm just saying it seems to me like skiing injuries are a lot more catastrophic. Blowing knees, backs, etc. You definitely tumble on a snowboard but are they wearing helmets? Its kind of tuck and roll. You crash off a 40 foot jump at what 40 miles an hour? And I just tumble and roll down the landing and eventually you stop. You can get hurt either way and I think the head injuries are much more influenced by what you hit than how you started off. A rock or tree is going to be an issue no matter how you ended up flying into it.

My opinion might be skewed by the time I spend in the park, those guys crank their din settings down so that the skis don't pop off for almost everything so they get messed up a lot more than snowboarders do. We just kind of tumble down landings and they're getting trashed around by the skis.

 

[David Metsky]

4. Get first tracks on Chute to liftline, with about 10 other snowboarders. You will have a full audience of skiers all wanting first tracks under the lift. They will be very happy.

Except there will be 2 dozen skiers (mostly telemarkers) who skinned up at dawn or who spent the night up top who are poaching ahead of you. Sorry, that's not going to get anyone's attention. First tracks on a powder day at MRG happen at dawn.

Actually, most folks will ski or ride some more interesting terrain then Chute, so maybe you'll have Chute on your own. Knock yourself out.

 

[dmc]

Actually, most folks will ski or ride some more interesting terrain then Chute, so maybe you'll have Chute on your own. Knock yourself out.

Not the first place I'd head for...

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Not the first place I'd head for...

Perhaps because you want to enjoy the goods. If this is for the "Bounty", than I think AWF's plan would be the winner. It would make a statement without being overly obnoxious and would be easy to document on video. (Defineltely a better plan than the paochers early season at Taos who got buried in an avalanche on Kachina Peak. No disrepect meant for the departed, BTW).

I sill think Burton should step up to the plate and say:

To whomever dreamed up this moronic idea.

 

[dmc]

Perhaps because you want to enjoy the goods.

yup...

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

yup...

See? We agree on something. (At least I didn't say that picture above was Jake. But that's OK, I've got nomex)

 

[dmc]

i just want to ride and be left alone...