'Dacks vs. Greens vs. Whites Smackdown

[Greg]

Berkshires, baby!!!!!

 

[woodlandclown]

....if I knew there were girls on AlpineZone. What's going on here ?

And more than one girl too! i came in here to help out my boy willy, but he seems to be holding his own in here. my preferred mtn in whiteface--i love the vertical and the authentic adk mountain feel--you cant get that anywhere else in the east. The authenticity is a bit harder to find around the holidays when the tourons invade, thats why i love the fact that i am close to so many great northern VT mountains that i can slip over there and be a touron and wait in line too. I am spoiled though - 20 minutes from whiteface and I havnt skied anywhere else in two years. This year i do plan to hit up sugarbush--maybe stowe end of season, jay for jeep day..

 

[Greg]

And more than one girl too! i came in here to help out my boy willy, but he seems to be holding his own in here.

Oh brother. :roll: Now he's recruiting chicks to fight his battles...

Kidding. Welcome woodlandclown!

 

[Birdman829]

Overall, I think it's a wash. I've never skied in the 'dacks but they seem to have some pretty gnarly terrain. As far as trail map terrain goes, I think the 5 best in the east are

(in no particular order)
Whiteface (haven't skied it but I'd love to)
Stowe
Sugarbush
Sugarloaf (separate category as it's not in any of the three ranges)
Wildcat

 

[atkinson]

Best is tough, but here are the pros and cons, left to right:

ADKs
Pro: Great slide skiing, really interesting BC terrain, competition for tracks is the lowest of the three ranges
Con: Long approaches, least amount of snow in general
Commentary: Whiteface and Gore are limited lift-served options for such a large range, snow matters a lot in what is skiable and when.

Greens
Pro: Best snow in general, at least in the North, huge variety of great glade and backountry skiing, overall it has the best resorts of the three.
Con: Limited above tree-line terrain, thriving competition for tracks
Commentary: Early and mid-season, it is hard to beat the powder and terrain in Vermont. Not the most vertical, but 2000'+ is the average for the most resorts. Snowmaking extends season at many areas into May.

Whites
Pro: The Presi's
Cons: With the exception of Wildcat and Cannon, I always wonder why the ski areas in New Hampshire aren't on a mountain. The best terrain is universally not where they put the lifts. Least vertical at resorts of the three. Wind.
Commentary: The gullies, ravines and snowfields, plus the extended season (November to June+) in the Whites make up for most of its shortfalls.

So, it's best to live in VT and take advantage of the more consistent snow, but be willing to travel across the lake for occasional forays in bigger terrain. Save the Whites for springtime couloirs or rare dumps at Cannon and Wildcat. YMMV.

John
smack dab in the middle of it all

 

[from_the_NEK]

Sugarloaf (separate category as it's not in any of the three ranges)

Technically Sugarloaf is in the northern arm of the White Mountains. Just because there is a border between states doesn't mean the mountains change orogeny.

 

[freeheelwilly]

WoodyClown is here! You guys are doomed.

AHM, you be funny!

ARider: Me thinks you've been called out.

 

[smootharc]

Today's SAT word....

Technically Sugarloaf is in the northern arm of the White Mountains. Just because there is a border between states doesn't mean the mountains change orogeny.

....is Orogeny. Not to be confused with Erogenous or Orgy, boys (and, unbelievable, now, girls....)....

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

If size matters the little "bump" to the left is Little Whiteface (2,500+ ft. of vert), Whiteface is in the middle, Esther (another high peak to the right). Just sayin.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I'm not sure how there can be any argument about this. The sport of skiing, especially backcountry skiing, requires snow. Preferably deep snow. There is only one range in the northeast US that delivers deep snow on a consistent basis, and that is the Green Mountain of VT from Killington Peak northwards. Collectively, they avg 250"-350" each and every year. I don't think there's any place in all of NY State that averages more than 200" outside of the Tug Hill plateau. In New Hampshire, the only way you hit that mark is by skiing the Presis, and could luck with the weather up there.

But in order to enjoy this snow-filled bounty, you need to get there first, and once again, the Greens come out on top. The spine of the Greens is criss crossed by several major arteries, enabling skiers to get where they need to go w/o long approaches. In contrast, the approach to Marcy and many of the high peaks in the Dacks can be in excess of 10-15 miles round trip. No thanks. The Whites have similarly easy access as the Greens from most direction, but they are more spread out, making it more difficult to "get theah from heah" in certain circumstances.

Finally, we have terrain. All three mountain ranges offer a wealth of consistent fall lines in excess of 2000'. Certain lines in the Presis and the Dacks offer far more than that. However, outside of the Slides, the Dacks don't offer nearly as many known and secret B/C routes, let alone "in-bounds" options as the Greens. This is likely explained both by their "Forever Wild" status as well as their difficulty to access. The Whites, especially when considering the Presis, most certainly equal the Greens, if not surpass them.

All in all, I think it's difficult to conclude that the Greens aren't the best range when all factors specific to skiing are considered. The Whites are a reasonably close second, though it's difficult for me to get around the lack of snowfall thing. The Dacks, IMHO, while a great range with lots of options, are a distant third.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

If size matters the little "bump" to the left is Little Whiteface (2,500+ ft. of vert), Whiteface is in the middle, Esther (another high peak to the right). Just sayin.

That's great - OTOH, Mt. Mitchell tops out at 6,800' plus, yet you won't find me skiing the sucker. Not enough snow.

 

[Mapnut]

Sugarloaf is in the Longfellow Mountains. The White Mountains end about Bethel.

Anyone have a photo of people actually skiing the Slides? I haven't seen one yet.

 

[ChileMass]

OK let's stack it up:

Major resorts (I'm using > 2000' vert as my standard, but subjective stuff comes into play, too):

ADKs: Whiteface and Gore
NH: Cannon and Loon
VT: Stowe, Killington, Sugarbush, Smuggs, MRG, Okemo, Stratton, Jay, Burke

BIG EDGE: VERMONT 2 pts


Great Vacation Ski Town(s):

ADKs: Lake Placid
NH: North Conway
VT: Stowe, Killington (base); Burlington, even Manchester

ANOTHER BIG EDGE: VERMONT 2 pts


Back-Country:

ADKs: No contest. Adirondacks dwarf any and all competition from NH or VT

BIG EDGE: ADKS 2 pts


Commercialty vs Non-Commerciality: (a big issue among regular/avid skiers):

ADKs: Lake Placid has some specialty shoppes and hosts the occasional international event, but otherwise rates low on sell-out scale.

NH: North Conway traffic SUCKS, but otherwise I like the vibe. Gimme a Tuckerman Pale Ale at the Red Parka Pub right now please......

VT: Leading the league in selling out. Stowe, MRG and Burke keep the tradition going for the most part, but K-Mart, Okemo, Stratton and Mt. Sneaux (love that), overwhelm with corporate sterility.

TIE - ADKS AND NH 1 pt each


Total Cost of Maintaining Your Skiing Addiction:

ADKs: You can actually work in the industry and live in the ADKs. You might need to tend bar at night or get a 2nd job in summer, but it can be done. Lift tix and passes still somewhat reasonable.
NH: North of Plymouth and outside of Jackson/Conway you can still buy a house. Tix and passes getting steeper every year! (Massholes driving up prices)
VT: The land of paradox - in every other town you either need to be a prince from Westchester County or the only real estate is a double-wide next to a dairy farm. Lift tickets and passes are off the charts outside of Jay and Burke.

EDGE - ADKS 1 pt


Final Score: ADKs - 4; VT - 4; NH - 1

Well, that's not what I had hoped since I love NH, but the "facts" don't lie.......feel free to challenge or add to the scorecard.......

 

[woodlandclown]

Sugarloaf is in the Longfellow Mountains. The White Mountains end about Bethel.

Anyone have a photo of people actually skiing the Slides? I haven't seen one yet.

Slides werent open a lot the past few years - but they changed that last year. they were open quite a bit--even on weekends. the policy has changed. you will see them open more from now on. they have different ratings--certain conditions will require BC gear, certain conditions wont.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Sugarloaf is in the Longfellow Mountains. The White Mountains end about Bethel.

The Longfellow or Blue Mountains or whatever they are called in Maine are still technically part of the White Mountain Orographic complex as far as I have always know anyway. :beer:

 

[riverc0il]

what tin woodsman said. regarding backcountry, i can't speak for the dacks, i know they have a huge amount of great slides. but as tin woodsman mentioned, accessability is a heck of a lot harder than the whites or greens. some may see that as a plus, most will see that as a minus.

each range has certain positives and negatives. there is no one best range overall. it is impossible to argue that the northern green mountains trump all ranges in the eastern united states for snow both in bounds and out of bounds. that is really what matters most to me. powder, baby.

 

[tree_skier]

Lets face it the Greens are way above the Dacks or the whites.

Natural Snow - the northern greens get way more then either the

Skiing Greens - Sneaux, Flatton, Bromley, Magic, POkemo, Kmart, da bush, MRG Stowe, Bolton, Smuggs, Burke, Jay did I miss any

Dacks iceface and bore

Whites cannon, gloom, atticrap, wildcat cranmore and someday bigger (a stretch for the whites)


snowmaking its hard to beat Sneaux, flatton, Bromley, Pokemo and Kmart for man made

So as I see it the greens win big time

as a bonus I live there.

 

[freeheelwilly]

I'm not sure how there can be any argument about this.

that's because you're an idiot.

The sport of skiing, especially backcountry skiing, requires snow.

Really? Wow, you're like really smart and junk!

Preferably deep snow.

Is that right?

There is only one range in the northeast US that delivers deep snow on a consistent basis, and that is the Green Mountain of VT from Killington Peak northwards. Collectively, they avg 250"-350" each and every year. I don't think there's any place in all of NY State that averages more than 200" outside of the Tug Hill plateau.

That's because you're an uninformed windbag. The ski area on WF gets less snow because of where it is located on the mountain. It's often quipped that they put the ski area on the wrong side (East facing). There are far snowier places in the adks, such as Avalanche Pass or the west facing faces of most of the the high peaks. Because there are no roads or ski areas there - you just don't hear about it. But there's BC there and lots of it. A couple buddies of mine used to be caretakers out at Lake Colden and I stayed at the interior outpost there on many occasions. The place was friggin' choked with snow! Not to mention Lyon Mountain or countless others.

In New Hampshire, the only way you hit that mark is by skiing the Presis, and could luck with the weather up there.

Oh just those! Dude, are you listening to yourself. Tux and the GOS alone are better than all ov Vermont's BS BC combined.

But in order to enjoy this snow-filled bounty, you need to get there first, and once again, the Greens come out on top. The spine of the Greens is criss crossed by several major arteries, enabling skiers to get where they need to go w/o long approaches.

Hahahahaha! I see! All those roads, golf courses and ski areas are a good thing! (In Bizarro Worlduke: )

In contrast, the approach to Marcy and many of the high peaks in the Dacks can be in excess of 10-15 miles round trip. No thanks.

Lazy, fat POS.

The Whites have similarly easy access as the Greens from most direction, but they are more spread out, making it more difficult to "get theah from heah" in certain circumstances.

Maybe Vermont will put in some sidewalks up their mountains soon too. Dude, you're a tool.

Finally, we have terrain. All three mountain ranges offer a wealth of consistent fall lines in excess of 2000'. Certain lines in the Presis and the Dacks offer far more than that. However, outside of the Slides, the Dacks don't offer nearly as many known and secret B/C routes,

BS! First of all, if they're "secret" how would you know? :dunce: There's shitload of BC routes in the 'Dacks. Read a book. Get a clue.

All in all, I think it's difficult to conclude that the Greens aren't the best range when all factors specific to skiing are considered.

Maybe for the lobotomized.

The Whites are a reasonably close second, though it's difficult for me to get around the lack of snowfall thing. The Dacks, IMHO, while a great range with lots of options, are a distant third.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh Tin Dick, you crack me up!

 

[andyzee]

I am an East Coast skier chick... I drink beer, ski powder, boiler plate, I even hit jumps on ocasion..so wherever I am..it's the best mountain.. oh and I'm blonde too.. ha ha ha

 

[Birdman829]

OK let's stack it up:

Major resorts (I'm using > 2000' vert as my standard, but subjective stuff comes into play, too):

ADKs: Whiteface and Gore
NH: Cannon and Loon
VT: Stowe, Killington, Sugarbush, Smuggs, MRG, Okemo, Stratton, Jay, Burke

BIG EDGE: VERMONT 2 pts


Great Vacation Ski Town(s):

ADKs: Lake Placid
NH: North Conway
VT: Stowe, Killington (base); Burlington, even Manchester

ANOTHER BIG EDGE: VERMONT 2 pts


Back-Country:

ADKs: No contest. Adirondacks dwarf any and all competition from NH or VT

BIG EDGE: ADKS 2 pts


Commercialty vs Non-Commerciality: (a big issue among regular/avid skiers):

ADKs: Lake Placid has some specialty shoppes and hosts the occasional international event, but otherwise rates low on sell-out scale.

NH: North Conway traffic SUCKS, but otherwise I like the vibe. Gimme a Tuckerman Pale Ale at the Red Parka Pub right now please......

VT: Leading the league in selling out. Stowe, MRG and Burke keep the tradition going for the most part, but K-Mart, Okemo, Stratton and Mt. Sneaux (love that), overwhelm with corporate sterility.

TIE - ADKS AND NH 1 pt each


Total Cost of Maintaining Your Skiing Addiction:

ADKs: You can actually work in the industry and live in the ADKs. You might need to tend bar at night or get a 2nd job in summer, but it can be done. Lift tix and passes still somewhat reasonable.
NH: North of Plymouth and outside of Jackson/Conway you can still buy a house. Tix and passes getting steeper every year! (Massholes driving up prices)
VT: The land of paradox - in every other town you either need to be a prince from Westchester County or the only real estate is a double-wide next to a dairy farm. Lift tickets and passes are off the charts outside of Jay and Burke.

EDGE - ADKS 1 pt


Final Score: ADKs - 4; VT - 4; NH - 1

Well, that's not what I had hoped since I love NH, but the "facts" don't lie.......feel free to challenge or add to the scorecard.......

BIG OVERSIGHT. You forgot to include Wildcat in your resorts list for the Whites. And apparently the Loaf and Sunday River too? Apparent;y they are technically in the Whites.