DIN Settings

[Catul]

So that other thread was interesting to read and very timely since I was just looking at DIN charts yesterday. I bought new skis online and am expecting them in a day or two, the bindings are mounted but will need to be adjusted and set by a local shop.

I'm 6'2", 210 lbs and a strong intermediate/barely advanced skier (probably around a Level 7 according to PSIA's 1-10 scale) - I don't ski very aggressively though, typically medium speed with preferably long arcing turns. I bought my last pair of skis over 7 years ago (was probably a mid-intermediate then) and those bindings are at a DIN 7.

I hadn't skied in 5 years, just started out with a couple of days this season. I never really had problems with the DIN settings on my old skis, can't recall an early release or them not releasing during a fall. However, I think I'm a better and a little more aggressive skier now, so should I consider having my DIN setting raised?

According to the chart for my height and weight as a Type II skier, DIN 7 is correct. If I say I'm a Type III skier then it would be DIN 8.5 - how much of a difference is there between a DIN 7 and DIN 8.5? How about if I just ask for a DIN of 7.5, is that a noticeable difference from what I'm at right now?

Appreciate any thoughts on this!

EDIT: Shoot, this should probably be in the "Gear and Equipment" forum, could a mod please move it for me? Thanks!

 

[RossiSkier]

I'd go nuts with a DIN under 10. You're a big person and your DIN is set to 7, so your skis must pop off often. I'd have those babies cranked up to at least 10 or 11. If you crash, they'll come off. Expert aggessive skiers are anywhere from 12-14 DIN. I think that chart may be a little too conservative.

 

[kbroderick]

1. You can't really "ask for" a DIN with most shops, unless you want to look at the chart and work backwards (let's see...if I want this DIN, I know my bootsole is xxx mm, so I must weigh 175 lbs and be 5'12"). To avoid liability suits, I would expect shops to be willing only to set bindings by the tech manual, which precludes adjusting the DIN "because the customer asked for a 7.5".

2. If you haven't had problems with premature release, why bother turning the DIN up? There's absolutely no performance advantage to a higher DIN unless you're having trouble keeping your skis attached to your feet.

In general, if there's any doubt in your mind as to whether you're a Type II or Type III, you're probably a II. Unless you have a compelling reason not to, the safest way to get your bindings set correctly should be to go to a reputable shop and fill the form out honestly.

 

[Catul]

Thanks for the two (pretty opposite) opinions guys, heh! This topic is pretty interesting, isn't it?

Rossiskier, I'm just a basic Level 7 type skier, moderate speeds and not very aggressive, so I'm not sure cranking the DIN way up is good.

kbroderick, my main goal is to make sure the DIN is setup right for me, and that DIN 7 is right by the charts for my weight and Type II skier (which I honestly think I am). Since my skis haven't really released prematurely in the past, I'd say it's ok to leave it at that. OTOH, I AM a bit more aggressive and faster than I was when I was actively skiing 5 years ago, and I'm wondering if a slight tweak to a DIN of 7.5 or 8 is worth considering.

So how much of a difference is there between a DIN 7 and 8? Is it possible to explain or quantify that difference? I know I can't ask for a specific DIN, but I could fudge my weight/height a little according to the chart so the shop sets it up the way I want

 

[kbroderick]

DIN settings are supposed to specify either the force or power required to trigger a release (I don't know which), so there is some specification that quantifies the difference between a DIN of 5 and one of 6, etc. I would expect that there's some complicated technical document written in German that explains it.

I will reiterate that I see no reason to proactively tweak your DIN unless you are about to do something completely out of the range of what you normally do...e.g. if you're about to run a downhill or the like, where the consequences of a release become much more significant and the consequences of a non-release are therefore a lesser concern. Under most conditions, modern bindings do an excellent job of staying on until they need to come off. Particularly when combined with good technique, the chart settings should be adequate for most skiers.

For comparison, I am decidedly a Type III skier (I raced until I hit college and proved beyond any doubt that I am not a Div. I athlete, and I still ski pretty hard at times), 5' 9", 160 lbs w/ a 314mm bootsole...and I can ski at 7 or 8 without any trouble at all (I think 8 is the "chart setting" for me, with the Type III upgrade). I think the last time I tossed a ski involved a half-pipe and a rental ski five or six years ago; I definitely haven't walked out any time in recent memory.

 

[LVNLARG]

Where I was thinking River needs to be 10 or 11. (I'm down in the 10's now after learning he has the biggest feet around)...but I don't think it's the case here. I think Rossi's logic is coming from someone 210 with size 7 or 8 feet....which makes for a much higher Din than someone with bigger feet like we have here again. This again is a weigh stuff in one hand....weigh some other stuff in the other situation. He has the weight for column M but is working off Column L due to height (and he does not fall very short of the M target for height). Then read between the lines of what he's saying...he's a bit concerned about pre-release likely because he knows he's sped up of late... and I get that he thinks he is on the cusp of level 3 likely due to switching to Parabols. The old "if it works don't mess with it" does NOT work for Din. If your skiing and speed improves...so must your Din... as actually having the pre-release doing 30 mph down a steeper narrow trail is not the best way to find out you need to step it up. If his avatar is a pic of him he's going at a good clip and looks to know what carving is. Now....when you forget about a couple inches of height...his bindings are actually set at novice level. Weigh that with the fact he's headed towards advanced and I personally think jumping him up the full level to 8.5 would not be un called for. Binding setting is not a strictly by the charts science as there are situations like this one which call for using a little logic. If you agree with this...I would tell the techs you're level 3 along with your proper weight and height to get yourself a Din of 8.5.. which due to the other parameters here is a Din that falls in between level 2 and level 3 skiing....making it the right Din for you. :beer:

 

[LVNLARG]

Thanks for the two (pretty opposite) opinions guys, heh! This topic is pretty interesting, isn't it?

Rossiskier, I'm just a basic Level 7 type skier, moderate speeds and not very aggressive, so I'm not sure cranking the DIN way up is good.

kbroderick, my main goal is to make sure the DIN is setup right for me, and that DIN 7 is right by the charts for my weight and Type II skier (which I honestly think I am). Since my skis haven't really released prematurely in the past, I'd say it's ok to leave it at that. OTOH, I AM a bit more aggressive and faster than I was when I was actively skiing 5 years ago, and I'm wondering if a slight tweak to a DIN of 7.5 or 8 is worth considering.

So how much of a difference is there between a DIN 7 and 8? Is it possible to explain or quantify that difference? I know I can't ask for a specific DIN, but I could fudge my weight/height a little according to the chart so the shop sets it up the way I want

The difference is your ski staying on when you hit a snowball sized piece of ice rolling down the trail off your tip while doing 30 mph or it staying on when you hit it at 20 mph. I don't know this as a fact...but that roughly is what the point of stepping up your din 1 means. Because the force of hitting that chunk is greater than the normal force of skiing it will cause your boot to move in the toe piece. The higher Din will have the force to pull the toe of your boot back into the binding and allow you to continue on noticing nothing....the lower Din will cause your boot to continue on to fully release and you to wipe out hard as you're not expecting it. You don't want your ski to come off in either instance but if your din is not adjusted to the potential forces that you will be applying to your bindings it will. The faster you go...the higher your Din should be and the higher the stakes are for having the correct Din. :beer:

 

[Son of Drifter]

I'm 6'2", 210 lbs and a strong intermediate/barely advanced skier (probably around a Level 7 according to PSIA's 1-10 scale) - I don't ski very aggressively though, typically medium speed with preferably long arcing turns. I bought my last pair of skis over 7 years ago (was probably a mid-intermediate then) and those bindings are at a DIN 7.

I hadn't skied in 5 years, just started out with a couple of days this season. I never really had problems with the DIN settings on my old skis, can't recall an early release or them not releasing during a fall. However, I think I'm a better and a little more aggressive skier now, so should I consider having my DIN setting raised?

According to the chart for my height and weight as a Type II skier, DIN 7 is correct. If I say I'm a Type III skier then it would be DIN 8.5 - how much of a difference is there between a DIN 7 and DIN 8.5? How about if I just ask for a DIN of 7.5, is that a noticeable difference from what I'm at right now?

You're not a type 3 so stick with the chart. Ask the tech who mounts your bindings his/her opinion. But whatever you do DON'T listen to rossiskier the french are nuts.

 

[Catul]

he's a bit concerned about pre-release likely because he knows he's sped up of late... and I get that he thinks he is on the cusp of level 3 likely due to switching to Parabols. The old "if it works don't mess with it" does NOT work for Din. If your skiing and speed improves...so must your Din... as actually having the pre-release doing 30 mph down a steeper narrow trail is not the best way to find out you need to step it up. If his avatar is a pic of him he's going at a good clip and looks to know what carving is. Now....when you forget about a couple inches of height...his bindings are actually set at novice level. Weigh that with the fact he's headed towards advanced and I personally think jumping him up the full level to 8.5 would not be un called for.

That pic in my avatar is from Dec 1998, I was hamming it up for the camera The following December was my last real season of skiing, and I'd improved a good amount since buying my equipment in 97 or 98 (which is when my DIN was last adjusted). The 5 year layoff hasn't helped, but I felt awesome for the three days over Thanksgiving when we finally skid again. Again, I'm just a strong intermediate, can carve reasonably well on Blues or maybe even on groomed blacks. Oh, my boot sole is 325mm (to go along with the 6'2" and 210lbs).

I'd bought those skis when shaped skis had recently "come out", they're Rossi Energy 191cm. I've now bought Volkl SuperSport 4* 175cm, which have a significantly more aggresive sidecut, and I wonder how much my style and speed will change.

The difference is your ski staying on when you hit a snowball sized piece of ice rolling down the trail off your tip while doing 30 mph or it staying on when you hit it at 20 mph.

LOL! In reality, I'm probably still just a Type II skier, don't go too fast (certainly not 30mph and not even 20mph really), like to make medium speed short and long turns, not very aggressive yet.

I will reiterate that I see no reason to proactively tweak your DIN unless you are about to do something completely out of the range of what you normally do

Yeah, I agree with that. While it might be the case that in a month or so, especially after some lessons, I might find that I'm skiing faster and more aggressively and hence want a higher DIN, I have been pretty happy with the DIN 7 I was at, so why change?

 

[HDHaller]

1. You can't really "ask for" a DIN with most shops, unless you want to look at the chart and work backwards (let's see...if I want this DIN, I know my bootsole is xxx mm, so I must weigh 175 lbs and be 5'12"). To avoid liability suits, I would expect shops to be willing only to set bindings by the tech manual, which precludes adjusting the DIN "because the customer asked for a 7.5".

2. If you haven't had problems with premature release, why bother turning the DIN up? There's absolutely no performance advantage to a higher DIN unless you're having trouble keeping your skis attached to your feet.

In general, if there's any doubt in your mind as to whether you're a Type II or Type III, you're probably a II. Unless you have a compelling reason not to, the safest way to get your bindings set correctly should be to go to a reputable shop and fill the form out honestly.

Good advice, all of which I would second.
-HDH