Do bumps make the man?

[Steve The Bluesman]

If you don't ski bumps by choice but can if put to the task, you are an expert.

If you CAN'T ski bumps, you are not an expert.

Good definition. Although I would say "...can do it cleanly if put to the task." No freezing up or getting back on your skis or launching off a mogul becuase you weren't looking two bumps ahead...

I hit the bumps at World Cup & Bear Down at Stratton last week (Free Fall was not in good shape). It was work, and it was probably not pretty (I did launch off a couple of bumps), but I felt good at the bottom of the runs, and felt pride looking up at the mess that I had just skied down.

It is good to push yourself once in a while when you are feeling right - but I would never put myself in the expert category (more like the "fearless and stupid" category.)

So if you can ski bumps and do it right and clean consisently, regardless of the steep or the conditions, then you get the expert stamp.


Bluesman

 

[skibum1321]

Experts can ski backwards, fowards or sideslip in both directions, with or without twin tips. Which brings me to the half pipe, the same expert should at least be able to go up and down the wall switch or fowards. Jumps are in the realm of a park skiier/rider. An expert may not need to know how to do tricks, but should be able to learn them quickly if they put their mind to it.

In essence, an expert skiier has evolved to the point that their skiis are just an extension of their body. All aspects of skiing should feel natural at all points in the season, even first run.

I don't consider the park a necessity to be an expert skier. I never go to the park by design because I hate it. Therefore I don't have park skills, but can ski any part of the mountain with ease. Just because I can't throw a filthy mcnasty doesn't mean that I'm not an expert. Hell I can't do a 360 on sneakers, nevermind throwing it in the park.

 

[salida]

this day and age the biggest challenges for me are to ski steep, tight, gnarly lines in the trees and being able to ski them with good speed and flow.

In addittion to bumps, this has been a big stepping stone for me this year. I have always been able to ski this stuff, but not with the fluidity and poise that I wanted to. Keeping my hands forward and looking ahead (like with bumps) has really helped me ski tight, steep, gnarly tree'd chutes this year (think the steep parts of jay or the loaf)...

 

[alpinemorg]

i'm a terrible mogul skier so I don;t consider myself an expert. i;d say I;m more of an "advanced intermediate". I still got things to learn.

My sentiments exactly. I make no bones about the fact that I'm very poor in the bumps, not that I just "don't like them", and subsequently don't call myself an expert, but advanced.

And though some runs/ski days are devoted to a happy, free, hippy-cruises over groomers, I'm always ultimately ready to critique myself and push hard to some day enter the realm of "All Mountain Expert" (ray of light and angelic music), by cutting surgeon-like through any bumps or glades thrown at me.

 

[alpinemorg]

Change the Title!!!

Oh yeah, and they don't just "make the man".

I love nothing better than chasing a mountain goddess who can out-rip me on her worst day down the mountain!

 

[dmc]

thats the point, you may hate the park, i dont enjoy bumps (on skis or board). i think to be considered an "expert" you would need to master the park and pipe on a board. in otherwords, be able to do it even if you dont enjoy it. by master i mean get down with some grace, not be a rockstar at it.

Exactly what i was driving at...
There's lot's of park riders that would NEVER considering some f the crap I've pulled..

You make it down something with a smile on your face... Thats all that matters....

 

[NYDrew]

Hey, never said I like the park, I hate the parks, well not hate because the best snow on the mountain is usually at the edge of one. I can't do a mcnasty triple flip ass-grab combined with a switch 1080 doggy style tweak, but the point is, is that I probably could if i cared to learn wheather that is a real trick and how...and i don't think ill ever get board of the mountain enough to actually care. But I bet that 90% of those who can do tricks can't follow a real expert down the mountain. Most of those people know nothing but hike-jump-hike-jump-hike-jump-broken collar bone.

Someone said something about launching off a a mogul. I consider myself expert and launch off moguls all the time, its fun to grab air off a zipper and then try to land without disrupting your rhythm.

mmmm, women bump skiiers, now thats something I would like to see done in a sports bra.

 

[riverc0il]

If a person can’t, doesn’t or won’t ski bumps can that person still be considered an expert skier if he/she does every other aspect of skiing very well. I say no, what do you think?

i say no, hands down. skiers who can ski everything up to a bumped trail may be called advanced, lower advanced, or upper intermediate. i think by definition, "expert" should refer to a skier that can ski anything with proficiency (i.e. without looking like a hack). that means that good skiers that hack their way through bumps and sideslip their way down and aren't really "skiing" the bumps are not experts. i think a true all mountain expert also needs to be able to at least ski sparse trees and glades and powder with proficiency. tight tree lines, chutes, and hucks can seperate the true men from the boys in the expert ranks though.

my preferred to is the consumate all mountain skier that can ski anything on the mountain. i think that is the mark of a true expert skier. as i mentioned in another thread, i think there is a tendency for most skiers to over rate their own ability level. i think this is a prime example when someone refers to themselves as an expert skier but can't navigate a bump run.

 

[riverc0il]

Expert skier: Skier who can ski any terrain in any conditions in any weather with style and control.

If you don't ski bumps by choice but can if put to the task, you are an expert.

If you CAN'T ski bumps, you are not an expert.

There's a difference. I know alot of experts who used to ski bumps alot but don't care for it anymore. But they are great bump skiers and can rip the zipper if challenged.

great point Jim. i meant to add that to my post, but i just wanted to echo your thoughts since you wrote it so well. i sure won't be doing bumps all the time when i am 60 or so, but would probably still be able to do them in a pinch. hopefully i won't get a demotion at that time though, heh!

 

[riverc0il]

In essence, an expert skiier has evolved to the point that their skiis are just an extension of their body.

beautifully put. when i am really nailing a line, it is so effortless and natural it boggles my mind sometimes. i consider it a dance and use the analogy often. grace and style despite the nastiness and rugged challenge. the harder it gets, the more i work to make it look easy. and eventually it actually is easy, and that is the point at which you said the skis are an extension of the body and dare i say the mind. this is the height of skiing for me, nothing feels better or more euphoric.

 

[tekweezle]

i often tell novices I am skiing with that the real skill in skiing is being able to turn when and where you want to as opposed to the trail forcing you to. Most beginners seem to be preoccupied with figuring out how to stop or slow down. when they progress toward thinking about when and where to turn they will move up in skill level. By exercising more control, speed control and perform wider variety of turns, you can tackle more difficult slopes by applying the right techniques for the situation.

Moguls and tree skiing are on another level though. By nature, the terrain forces you to react to obstacles at speeds you might not be comfortable with. I know I'm not yet atleast when doing east coast hard pack moguls. so I don;t mind admitting that I am not an "expert". besides, admitting you have flaws is the first step to conquering them.

 

[JD]

I, personally, think bump skiing is pennance. I can survive bump runs, but my "style" is non exsistant. Can ski anything on the hill, but bumps aren't always pretty. It is a specific skill to learn, and it dosen't really teach you the fundementals of skiing completely. It sure as heck won't help you to learn what carving is all about. In fact, one guy I ski with is a great bumper. Years and years with a K-Mart pass. UGLY skier. Skids everything. Can't ski well in deep snow. Always trying to muscle his skis around. I think we are both expert skiers. We come from different backrounds and our styles refect what our stengths are as skiers.

I would say that even a well coached race can't just jump into the bumps and go, they need to be trained, or train themselves, in the displine.

Summary: Just because you can ski bumps well dosen't mean you're an expert, and just because you can't, it doesn't mean you aren't.

A better way to determine skill would be how well you do everything. Can you arc'em all the way down the hill? Can you get thru glades safely? Can you mac powder up to your theighs? Can you ski bumped steep in control? If you are proficient in all of these, I'd say you rock. You may rock some things harder then others, but you still ROCK!

 

[Vortex]

Tough one. I have to follow Jim G on this. He is more into the technical aspect and is good resource.

I don't ski the bumps therefore I can't ski the bumps. I'm not one for putting clasification on anything. I have skied the trees probably 10 times in the last 20 years. Not much competive racing in them as a kid and I just enjoy groomers today.
I ski on a carving ski. I would leave myself out of the expert community then. Thats ok.
Interesting reading this thread.

 

[2knees]

interesting question. Having spent the greater part of my skiing life focusing primarily on bumps, i like to think i've reached a level that would be considered expert. However, there is a flip side for me. I'm not sure i would classify myself as an expert in other aspects. The biggest problem i have encountered is injury. I've done so much damage to my knees skiing moguls over the years that i have forsaken cliffs, jumps, super high speeds to simply allow myself to continue skiing moguls. I love it and it is the primary reason i ski. I'll take a nice tight steep narrow bump run over a couple of feet of fresh powder any day. It's like a drug addiction for me. So much so that i go to an area and spend 80% or more of my day on the first good bump run i find. In the end though, its all about having fun.

 

[kbroderick]

What was that thread earlier in the season...expert skiers versus real skiers? *snickers*

Personally, I considered myself an expert before I could ski bumps well, and one of the better moments for me in the past couple of years (er, I think it was two years ago last spring) was when my brother (who used to compete in moguls and is generally a better athlete than I) admitted to my parents that he was impressed with my skiing...on Top Gun at Sunday River, which was bumped up at the time. I'd coached, taught English schoolchildren, and raced (in reverse-chronological order) prior to then, but I generally hadn't been able to do much in the bumps.

My definition of an expert is someone who can ski competently on any in-bounds, open terrain on reasonable gear. And I think the comment someone else made about trail maps goes along with this nicely; I'm horrible with trail names at this point, because it simply doesn't matter where I go--I know that I'll be able to ski it. (Whether or not it will take me to the lift or lodge I'm trying to get to is another story.)

Re: pain inflicted by skiing bumps, I had a race coach once who almost always refused to ski bumps. He was a great skier, but he didn't do bumps. We were at a spring race series and he relented, ripped some pretty impressive lines on long slalom skis...and spent the evening popping Advil and icing his back. So the claims of bodily stress are sometimes quite valid, even with what [appears to be] good technique.

Finally, I'd also suggest that there are (or were; more recent trends in park vs. bump popularity may have changed this) bump skiers out there who can't turn for crap; I remember seeing skiers who could deflect-and-extend rather well but were completely, utterly unable to arc a turn. They may simply have not cared, but it's a little disturbing to watch someone on a pair of floppy-tipped mogul skis straightline a moderate-pitch groomer because he's trying to get to a terrain feature or another mogul field somewhere.

 

[NYDrew]

i dont know about that inbounds part. i think at least one successful out of bounds experience is needed for the graduation to expert.

 

[dmc]

i dont know about that inbounds part. i think at least one successful out of bounds experience is needed for the graduation to expert.

You got me thinking on that one..

I think I'd rather be a well rounded boarder then an expert boarder ..

 

[kbroderick]

i dont know about that inbounds part. i think at least one successful out of bounds experience is needed for the graduation to expert.

I used that as a criterion because it's a more reasonable limit in my mind than "skiable"; if dropping a 280-ft cliff while attached to a pair of skis makes it skiable, I think that's a rather tough milestone. By limiting it to in-bounds (in the context of my original statement--that an expert can ski any open, in-bounds terrain competently), you have a more reasonable measuring stick (IMO).

I think one would be hard-pressed to get to the point of being an expert skier without getting out of bounds at least once, but there's definitely skiable out-of-bounds terrain that is beyond the ability (and/or willpower and/or balls) of most expert skiers. As such, I don't feel it's fair to require an expert be able to ski something that has once been skied by a pro freeskier. So to come up with a credible definition of expert, I stand by my original suggestion--an expert is someone who can ski any open terrain competently given reasonable gear.

 

[Phildozer]

I think being able to ski bumps doesn't make or not make you an "expert". To me, moguls is more of a niche part of skiing.

I can't ski a "triple-kinked 872, Mctwinkie" jump either. Does that mean I'm not an "expert"?

 

[WICKEDBUMPER]

I'll take a nice tight steep narrow bump run over a couple of feet of fresh powder any day. It's like a drug addiction for me. So much so that i go to an area and spend 80% or more of my day on the first good bump run i find. In the end though, its all about having fun.

2Knees,
I'm with you. I need those bumps. nothing else does it for me anymore. I've gone as fast as I'm ever gonna go on skis, I've gone steeper then I'm ever gonna go again. I've been waist high in the pow and still yawned. I'd rather get dental work then carve a turn. Bumps are THE reason I ski.