Do the skis make the skier??

[campgottagopee]

Kinda going along with the "did you start skiing pre shaped skis" theme, do todays skis make the skier???

I contend that to a certain degree yes they do. Years ago making "good turns" took some real effort. Meaning a lot of weighting, un weighting thru the entire turn along with a good amount of consentration involved. Nowadays it seems as though you can just stay down, roll your ankles, and bam, your turning. In fact, I (at times) find myself kinda day dreaming almost not even thinking about making turns, but yet they still happen.

Any thoughts???

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

No...good skiers can ski on any kind of skis..but better skis make it easier..

 

[Phillycore]

A few years ago I got out a pair of my old straight skis and I fell both times I tried to turn ( I totally tried to ski them like they were parabolics....lol)
I then straight lined it to the car and them fuggers went in the trash...
I can't believe I actually used to ski on those things..
The skis don't make the skier, but they sure as hell don't hurt..

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

No...good skiers can ski on any kind of skis..but better skis make it easier..

Did you ever ski on straight skis?

 

[Geoff]

Shaped skis make it much easier to ski when you are out of shape. The ski really does do pretty much all of the work. From personal experience when I'd ballooned up over 300 pounds a couple of years ago, you can handle up to a groomed eastern double black without exerting much energy.

I was last on straight skis during Thanksgiving of 1999. It was a disaster start to the season and Killington only had Rime open with dirt, moss, and grass in every trough. The first turn was interesting... I rolled the ski up on edge and nothing happened.... oh yeah...

 

[campgottagopee]

No...good skiers can ski on any kind of skis..but better skis make it easier..

i agree with this sttement providing the skier you are talking about has skied on straight skis. I've seen a good "modern day" skier who has never skied straight skis be humbled by a pair of 210 "Yellow Sleds".

IMO, it makes a difference.

 

[mister moose]

This is simple. Look at people skiing.

How many do you look at and say, " I wish I coud ski like that..."

Not many, right? Is it because of the brand skis they have? So if you just buy those skis, you could ski like them?

Riiiiiight.

It's always been that way, shaped skis do not make the skier.

Shaped skis have created the easy parallel turn. Balance, skill, muscle tone and technical ability still are factors.

 

[Beetlenut]

No...good skiers can ski on any kind of skis..but better skis make it easier..

I think really good skiers can ski on any kind of ski, like Glen Plake. But for us amateurs, the ski type makes a big difference. Don't believe me, humble yourself and borrow a friends 1998 200cm straight skis, after you warm up on your current skis of course! Then tell me the ski doesn't make a difference!

 

[Greg]

A really good skier can ski any ski well. That said, I do think that new ski technology has made it easier for people to progress quicker and in some cases, gives people a false sense of what their skill level actually is. For example, put some of these people on natural terrain, or powder, or bumps, and you might see a far different skier than you see on the groomers.

 

[2knees]

no, they may make it easier but its always about the talent of the skier.

Its the carpenter, not the tools.

 

[Hawkshot99]

How much do you all think the slight shape of most Twin tips helps? They are nearly straight compared to a modern carver.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Did you ever ski on straight skis?

Yes for the first decade I skied..

 

[billski]

The right tool for the right job

I spent about 17 years on straights and 15 years on shaped. The most noticeable characteristic was how much easier it was to do things. A couple of observations.

I picked up some Volkl 724s for woods skiing. It's a much "straighter" ski than I had been used to. I was all over the map (read: no grip, no edge, wipeout city) on the groomers. I was in heaven in the pow, where the shape doesn't matter so much. The next time out with the 724's I "remembered" to work at carving and I was all better on the groomers. At this point, I can move between various skis without peril, understanding I have to "treat them different."

So I can see conversely how getting onto the "wrong" ski can make a "worse" skier. Too stiff, too little shape, too long, too short. You have to pick the right tool for the right job and know how to use the tool properly. (is this true for boards???)

With regard to talent, what everyone says is spot-on. I followed Billy Kidd down a blue trail at Steamboat. Our equipment was pretty similar. But he carved that snow like it was butter. I felt like a rank amateur after that.

 

[dl]

I would argue that there are far too many people out there who aren't taking advantage of the skis they're on. Shaped ski or not, they're still skiing the same way they have for decades - sliding turns and not carving them. The group on this forum is not only passionate about skiing but strives to improve. Unfortunately there are too many people who are content to ski the way they do and therefore they haven't figured out how to use what they've bought. Do they make an easier turn? They'll probably say yes but is it a better turn? Watch closely on your next chair lift ride and see who's working the ski and who's riding the ski.

 

[Greg]

I would argue that there are far too many people out there who aren't taking advantage of the skis they're on. Shaped ski or not, they're still skiing the same way they have for decades - sliding turns and not carving them. The group on this forum is not only passionate about skiing but strives to improve. Unfortunately there are too many people who are content to ski the way they do and therefore they haven't figured out how to use what they've bought. Do they make an easier turn? They'll probably say yes but is it a better turn? Watch closely on your next chair lift ride and see who's working the ski and who's riding the ski.

I'm in the group that really doesn't care how well I carve. Short, snappy and often times sloppy turns all the way!!!

 

[billski]

I would argue that there are far too many people out there who aren't taking advantage of the skis they're on. Shaped ski or not, they're still skiing the same way they have for decades - sliding turns and not carving them. The group on this forum is not only passionate about skiing but strives to improve. Unfortunately there are too many people who are content to ski the way they do and therefore they haven't figured out how to use what they've bought. Do they make an easier turn? They'll probably say yes but is it a better turn? Watch closely on your next chair lift ride and see who's working the ski and who's riding the ski.

The biggest progression I every made was when I finally stopped "fighting the mountain" and started "working the mountain". It was amazing how much easier things became. If you really learn how to use the equipment you have, you'll get so much more return on investment. It was only then that I was able to make a significant advance in my skills.
I'm a slow learner; it took about 10 years to get to that point.

 

[Jeff Isabelle]

Rattler

A skier should never be stuck with one pair of skis, get a couple of pairs.

Ever, Even back in the 70's I had 6 pairs to have fun with as I worked in a shop, one pair I loved were 175 Olin Mark IV's and I loved to train downhill with them then jump back to 210, 223's. Parabolics today don't compare to just short ski's of those days. Those days they were noodles. Today skis are very well built and the engineering is solid behind most of the big companies with the odd strange design.

So, "Do the skis make the skier", well if they did then you would be infering that by owning "worldcup" race stock Volkl skis that this alone would make anyone a worldcup contender.

"Do the skis make the skier", "no" many people buy the best but are they well no. As for those seeking fame and fortune any up and coming skier is any form of competition will tell you they do make a difference but they do not make the skier.

No short cuts to excellent skiing technique I would say for high speed skiing but todays parabolics are a far easier ski than in my days of the mid 60's for a beginning skiier. The skier who ski's like I did about 150 days a year here in the east just stood a far better chance of getting to the podium. Also if you are a contender nothing replaces the hours on the hill - If you want to be good just put in your time on the hill it always works best. 8)

 

[riverc0il]

The right skis can enable a good skier to have better performance in conditions characteristic to the nature of the ski. For an example, take racing. Four difference events (Slalom, GS, Super G, and Downhill) with different boards for every event. You won't see Bode Miller taking a Slalom ski down a Super G course because that particular ski does not allow Bode to perform best in that event. Could Bode beat most average Joe's down a Super G course using Slalom skis? Sure. But he wouldn't come close to placing in a racing event against other skiers with the right equipment.

Same thing with boards designed to rail on groomers, bumps specific skis, powder boards, etc. All specialize in something and the "all mountain ski" can hold skiers back from performing better in some conditions they are not optimized for.

A great skier can still make it work with any ski. But the right tool for the job can elevate a good skier's performance. So the skis do not "make" the skier, but certainly allow the skier to rise the bar significantly on the right terrain.

For skiers that have not reached sufficient ability level to notice major performance jumps and set backs between various pieces of equipment, then certain equipment will make skiing easier but various skis will not significantly alter performance until the skier has the technique needed to get the most out of various demands placed on various skis.

In essence, in typical riverc0il fashion, I have just challenged the nature of the question.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

How much do you all think the slight shape of most Twin tips helps? They are nearly straight compared to a modern carver.

Lots of twin tips have a good amount of shape..I feel like twin-tips are a little weird in tight spaces..

 

[MrMagic]

You know I was just thinking about this the other day, I am looking to buy a pair of mogul skis and I was thinking should I spend my money on those or just a pair of reg. semi fat all mtn expert skis, I know skinny bump skis do help a lot in the bumps, but I thought that I should be able to handle reg. skis in the bumps after much debate with my self I have decide to skip the bump skis ………… for now at least