Do you ski trees?

[ccskier]

Trees are the reason I am a NVT snob. Won't ski anywhere else besides NVT or West of the Mississippi

 

[ALLSKIING]

Best snow is in the trees so after a storm I spend alot of time there. I also love the quiet of skiing in the trees. Never did any tree work.

 

[Greg]

You can ski in the trees?

 

[marcski]

These days, if I'm skiing in the east, unless I'm skiing with my daughters or the wife, I'm in the trees!!! I'll ski some bumps, but otherwise, I'll spend my entire day in the trees.

 

[BigJay]

A buddy of mine works for a few ski resorts to expand their glade system and he does exactly what the website says... Using deadfalls to creat features... Covering exposed rocks.... build landings of flat drops... You really have to think what it will look like once it's covered with 30-60in of snow... Ceiling drops down that's for sure!

 

[JD]

Yea, it's amazing how high you have to trim. I get real high. The ski with the tools to get higher....when there's snow pack.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Yea, it's amazing how high you have to trim. I get real high. The ski with the tools to get higher....when there's snow pack.

The woods skiers left of Paradise at Sugarbush are like that..some winters the snow is so deep that you're in the branches..too much of a good thing..

 

[JD]

Sugarbush is sick. No reason to ever go any farther north. Most snow, best terrain in the east,nicest locals, sickest trees, powdercat skiing (whatever the heck that is), intensly proud retired folk who lap groomer after groomer running from their own mortality......it sweeter up there.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

intensly proud retired folk who lap groomer after groomer running from their own mortality......it sweeter up there.

You're gonna get bitchslapped by some proud retired folk..

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

Church!

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

So why is it kosher for a ski area to open a gladed trail with numerous high-profile stumps when there is less than 60" at the stake? I'm not talking about "clearing" the glades of logs or hobblebush, just trimming stumps. once a cut stump is all that remains, the tree is dead regardless. Also, I am not talking about stumps that resulted from trees falling naturally. These stumps are a result of sanctioned trailwork in the first place. A downed log provides valuable habitat for forest floor critters, voles, salamanders and the like, as well as organic matter. A 3" or 4"-diameter, 1-foot tall stump? Doubtful.

"So why is it kosher for a ski area to open a gladed trail with numerous high-profile stumps when there is less than 60" at the stake?"
Ever ski Magic?
LOL.

 

[JD]

No but I want to, how are their trees?

 

[campgottagopee]

Yessir on both

 

[billski]

I agree with sharney here. Cut it to the ground. I also disagree about cleaning hardwood forrest. It's very sustainable. You're actually prolly helping the health of the forrest by taking out every other sappling, allowing for it's neighbor to develope more fully, and ground growth is naturally limited to to a full canopy from what I have read, you can clean pretty aggressively in hardwoods w/o worring about ecological damage. I go by a 40 inch rule for uncleaned areas, and get into cut glades ealier depending on how dense the base is....
I've seen areas like that before, a result of people going in and cutting in the winter. Go back in the summer and the glade is full of 30 inch tall pungies...freaking dangerous. THAT is a lawsuit waiting to happen, as is opening woods runs inbounds this time of year, IMO. Asking for someone to get hurt.

Cutting to the ground is surely sustainable (I'm not a forester though), since forest fires have been found to be essential to the sustainability of the ecosystem. Clears the underbrush. In some ways, we have become too obsessive at controlling every forest fire. Watch a national geographic show on forest fires. Quite interesting.

With regard to stumps and other obstacles, before the whole US liability debacle it was pretty normal to ski on "maintained trails" that included lots of obstacles: stumps, roots, protruding rocks, drainage crevasses, mud, grass, gravel, trees down on the trail, gee even a lift stanchion or three. That's what was expected and nobody complained. And I'm not talking about the woods either. Skiers and boarders have gotten way too soft.

 

[djspookman]

No but I want to, how are their trees?

GREAT, and getting better every year. Getting to the Smuggs and MRG level in my book. I just need to get up there more in the summer!

 

[bigbog]

tree base areas....

Can't think of anywhere better than VT's trees...with a blizzard!;-)
Learning to extend and press those shovels into the trough on the backside(bumps) sure makes the process of emerging from deep stuff into air...and heading back down into the pow....a heck of a lot easier.

 

[scharny]

With regard to stumps and other obstacles, before the whole US liability debacle it was pretty normal to ski on "maintained trails" that included lots of obstacles: stumps, roots, protruding rocks, drainage crevasses, mud, grass, gravel, trees down on the trail, gee even a lift stanchion or three. That's what was expected and nobody complained. And I'm not talking about the woods either. Skiers and boarders have gotten way too soft.

Mmmm. Yeah, I sure wish there was some rebar or hunks of old lift tower concrete lurking under that 2 feet of fresh. Oh wait - there is. Good thing the patrollers put a few hazard wands up there to let me know about it. The concept of non-feasance has been around far longer than the whole US liability debacle. It's like leaving a manhole cover off and expecting someone not to get pissed when they rip the front wheel off of their car when they're driving across town on their way to work.

I started mountain biking in the mid 80s, before there were designated singletrack trails. We usually carried a spare derailleur, full tool kit and at least 2 spare tubes with us when we went out on rides that were longer than a few hours. I can't count how many times I destroyed my drivetrain, and I never complained - if fact it was a source of pride to me as to how much gear I could demolish. But now that there are hand-built bike trails, I really like that stuff better. It's more fun to ride, and you can open it up and ride much faster without having something unexpected happen to your bike around every other turn.

When I ski at a resort and I duck into a random, unmarked treeshot and begin exploring, I expect things to get interesting. That's part of the game woods skiers and backcountry skiers play. However when I'm in a glade that's marked on a trail map, and which has ropes that can be raised or dropped, I have a SLIGHTLY higher expectation - basically that whoever created the trail or glade had the common courtesy to clean up after their trailwork (i.e. stumps and yes, "even a lift stanchion or three"). With regard to "Roots, protruding rocks, drainage crevasses, mud, grass, gravel, trees down on the trail" - bring 'em on. Those are natural features that make the woods tighter and more interesting. Also serves as powder conservation. It's not the trailbuilder's responsibility to pop big rocks out of the ground. If the line they create is filled with rock, then they either chose a poor line to begin with, or it should not be skied until it has a deeper base.

OK, I've said way too much about this topic. In the end, all we're really doing is debating about recreation and how we use our free time anyway. Let's hope we get some fluff to bond to the crust we got out there right now.

 

[JD]

If I'm in a cut line, I expect stuff is cut to the ground. If I'm in natural woods, I expect the uunexpected and ski way more conservatively, at least until I have been there and observed, and then am going back with alot more base, and know stuff is well covered.

Skiing true backcountry to me is much about new tearrain as it is about ripping. The best runs for me are always the first runs in any area. Terrain coming at you that you have never seen before, improvisational skiing, and making the call as line of sight opens up over a horizon or thru a mouse hole in the soft woods is the "in-the-moment-escapism" I crave, and what draws me out into new areas. That's not to say I don't also enjoy agressively balsting lines I have memorized, but skiing an area for the first time, in natural trees, and linking a bunch of turns with good flow in the zenith, IMHO.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I've been known to chew some bark

 

[BigJay]

...but skiing an area for the first time, in natural trees, and linking a bunch of turns with good flow in the zenith, IMHO.

So come up North! I'll show you a couple of spots... I owe you a bunch for all the riding around Stowe... We have areas with pillows... Then open birch trees... And also have exposed and open areas that feel pretty epic when first coming up to it... And all legally accessible stuff far away... so no one goes there except the locals

During Xmaz vacation, do you have any days off with riding time? We could do a big day of touring around here... Of course, we need 2 major snowstorms by then... I'm sure we'll get it!

Let me know!